Archie Battersbee - Thread 4

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Archie Battersbee - Thread 3 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/inthee_news/4601962-archie-battersbee-thread-3

Another inconsistency I guess. It was the family who argued moving him for a scan would be harmful.

I think she will blame the hospital regardless.

Why does it have to go to court to decide if he moves to a hospice. Can’t the hospital just advice against it and outline all the risks but then allow the parents to decide if they want to take those risks. That’s assuming they can find a hospice to take him.

Archie Battersbee's family have been given until 9am tomorrow to launch a legal bid to move him to a hospice - otherwise his life support will be turned off at 11am

SkyNews.

Let's wait and see what develops. It is unbelievably cruel to that poor child now, in my opinion anyway. It has turned into a crisis into a drama. Awful really.

Is there any evidence that Archie was trying to copy an online craze or challenge? Just because normally when there's anything remotely "craze" like, the media tend to fling it out in an article and terrify parents, but I've seen no report on this challenge. Was he really trying to take part in a challenge and it was a terrible accident, or was he trying to commit suicide? I've read the court transcript from the hearing with Judge Arbuthnot so I read about how he was found, which makes me wonder what kind of challenge would produce those results and not be straight in the newspapers?

i think it is insulting to say stgaff dont care theyve gone on holiday? what does she think they do work 24/7with no breaks?

i hope the clc arent putting her up to this they'll drop her like a brick when hes gone

Which they will undoubtedly do

well exactly cant do any testson him but we want to move him to another building

He wasn't taking part in a challenge. He wasn't even filming himself. Understandably it makes the family feel better to believe he was, but there's no evidence and a lot of evidence that he talked about depression and suicide.

Not really a problem with the internet.

I guess though that the fear of moving him through the hospital for tests was the worry they might worsen his condition and kill him. Not so much of a worry when you're moving to a hospice to turn off life support.

Because the decision has to be what is best for Archie. Not his parents. He is the patient.

@bloodyplanes maybe that's what she's hoping? She's hoping he goes by "god's will" so if he arrests then that's her wish granted.

I dont think she should be allowed to appeal unless she has evidence of a hospice that has a space and is willing to take him.

With NHS, annual leave is pretty regimented? (I can't think of the word!!)
So you can only have X amount of people of and leave is booked well in advance. August holiday? I would put money on it they booked leave back in January, and what are they meant to do, cancel their time off or holiday?

From the way HD talks about a hospice she still isn't able to contemplate that he has no understanding of his surroundings, and so being in a peaceful place won't make any difference to the poor child.

Hospice places are difficult to find, and I understand most get no govt funding. It's not, IMO, an appropriate use of a hospice bed.

There comes a point when you are too unstable to move from a hospital to a hospice. An unplanned, uncontrolled death in a hospital corridor or an ambulance loading bay is categorically not what would be best for Archie, his family or the staff.

I don't think that's true. Endotracheal tubes have inline suction. They don't need to be disconnected for suction. Chest physiotherapy is done with bagging because the abrupt pressure change helps to loosen secretions.

Unless they've already lined up a hospice and a safe mode of transport, I don't see how can happen.

However, CLC lawyers look like having to pull another all-nighter if they want to pursue this, so at least they're having to work hard to wring their last bit of exploitation out of this poor child.

What will probably happen is the request gets put in just before 9am, the expected refusal doesn't get back until afternoon then another day will be added to it. I still think by the weekend he will be at peace but I'm not certain the way this has been manipulated.

Perhaps I'm wrong and I'm happy to be corrected here, but isn't the chaplain more spiritual/religious? That doesn't really count as proper professional help.

I thought the hospital had already said a transfer to a hospice was not possible?

If it would be possible for a retrieval team to move him then a court/the hospital would be likely do everything in their power to enable this for the family, they wouldn't refuse this unless it's just not safe enough for Alfie to be moved, and in the Gard case a hospice came forward and offered themselves to help when it was known the last appeal had been refused and parents wanted that option. If I remember, they were a place with a separate unit that they offered for privacy for the family and which gave the opportunity to manage the security/publicity issues from affecting other patients, although lucky that they were available at the right moment.

Sky news has said they have until 9am to appeal for a hospice. His mother has stated it's unfair that parents don't have rights... Once again forgetting that no parents don't have rights, the child however has human rights. She has also stated she wants him moving so he has "dignity" implying the hospital are stealing his dignity. It's so frustrating. She surely cannot be projecting her own actions onto the hospital?

As for counseling she will 100% have been offered it. However due to the breakdown of relationship between herself and the hospital she is not going to admit all the help and support they will have been offering her the entire time.

Statement from hospital

"Our deepest sympathies remain with Archie's family and we aim to provide the best possible support to everyone at this difficult time.

“As directed by the courts, we will work with the family to prepare for the withdrawal of treatment, but we will make no changes to Archie's care until the outstanding legal issues are resolved."

Alistair Chesser

Chief Medical Officer

Barts Health NHS Trust

Further information
We understand the motivation behind the family’s request for Archie to be moved to a hospice.

However, Archie is in such an unstable condition that there is considerable risk attached even to turning him within the confines of the hospital bed, as must be done as part of his continuing care.

This means that in his condition, transfer by ambulance to a completely different setting would most likely hasten the premature deterioration the family wish to avoid, even with full intensive care equipment and staff on the journey. We have explained this to his family.

In addition, the High Court order of 15 July – which has now been upheld on appeal – requires that Archie should remain at The Royal London Hospital while his treatment is withdrawn.

Our intensive care doctors and nurses will continue to care for Archie while there are outstanding legal issues to be resolved.