Archie Battersbee - Thread 4

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Archie Battersbee - Thread 3 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/inthee_news/4601962-archie-battersbee-thread-3

Yes, she has accepted defeat.

She looks broken. 😢

Oh 😢 thinking of all the family

That made me tear up.

She's broken poor woman.

I hope she has the support around her as she really cannot see the truth about Archie's situation and when he's officially passed she will struggle to accept that.

And I hope those radical groups now back off. Leave the poor woman alone to come to terms with what she's got to now face.

Do you think that should happen? Only parents should make the decision? Because that would indeed be a dangerous position to be in. Parents do not own their children and in many many cases are not the right people to be sling decisions on their best interests, as this case has clearly shown.

@bellac11 you said
*I dont know if Im comfortable with that concept. Does that apply in cases where corpses are found to be abused or violated?

They're already dead so are beyond suffering?*

I don't think respectful behaviour is about the deceased, it's about us. What it means to be human. We are outraged by the desecration of a corpse, not because of the feelings or rights of the deceased but because of the callous disregard of humanity itself- those left behind, relatives, professionals who deal with the aftermath etc.

I could be wrong. That Archie's been gone a while is the only saving grace, for me.

I can't even imagine. I don't agree with some of the things she's said but don't we all say things in desperation and panic. She's looks totally broken. I hope tonight is peaceful and any withdrawal is now done without the public knowing the times so it can be dignified and calm for archie and the family and the medical staff

I understand posters suggesting they should withdraw treatment before her legal team can appeal against, but that does seem a big ask from the HCP's being expected to do so

May I ask why you feel this way, when as things stand there's no legal reason not to withdraw support, and in fact every judgement has been that continuing is against Archie's best interests?

Obviously it'll be difficult in that a child's end always is, and if there are worries around Hollie's likely reaction we're not allowed to discuss them anyway, but overall I'm sure the staff will do the same professional best which they've done in every other support withdrawal - though admittedly others won't have brought them the kind of abuse this case has

@MsBallen apologies I now see from your post that you don't think it should happen!

I’ve just watched her video - his body can’t even cope with being suctioned without needing to be bagged.

There really isn’t much time left at all

What does that mean?

I couldn’t agree with this more. For me, it’s an obvious step to take. The very reason that the family courts are private is to protect the identity of the children who are the subject of the proceedings. I can’t understand why these types of cases aren’t treated in exactly the same way. It would allow families to access the courts but would protect the child’s dignity as well as protecting the medical staff from a media circus, and it would also reduce the likelihood of attention seeking campaign bodies like CLC becoming involved.

I don't think she is ever going to accept or understand the reality of it all. I think her coping mechanism when all is this over will be the belief that the legal system and the NHS killed her son and she will hold on to that anger for the rest of her life sadly 😔

And I hope those radical groups now back off. Leave the poor woman alone to come to terms with what she's got to now face. oh I think we can be sure that they will. They’re likely already on the lookout for their next victim.Despicable vultures all of them.

I'm afraid your point is too obscure for me to grasp - (giving you the benefit of there actually being a point) Dance is denying dignity to her son. Her parading his body to the public is disgraceful.

That is a terrible idea.

Fully agree also. Children are minors, unable no matter what their health status to make decisions for themselves legally. Anonymity should be an absolute requirement going forward. Archie did not and could not give permission to have distressing images of him plastered all over the media, nor did he or could he agree to be identified as the subject of this very emotive drama.

Let us hope that children in such cases are immediately awarded the same anonymity as children are in the family courts. I am truly baffled as to why this is not the case.

It means that when the breaths from the ventilator are paused and he’s discontinued from it - even for seconds - to enable suctioning of his secretions down his tube that his heart tries to stop.

I think it’s important to talk about these issues even tho’ the physical details are sadly disgusting - indeed, precisely why.

MN, scatalogical site extraordinaire, is surely a fit forum.

MN directors are battling their own legal challenge at the mo to stop censorship of the site. Justine Katz Roberts is arguing for freedom of speech in advance of the arrival of the mouth-zipping online safety bill, TW, the other sort of TW that wears lipstick, etc..

Ironic that death, surely the ultimate subject on which we all need MN’s famed support, has been deemed unsuitable by squeamish mods. Both in its leaky bits (from the site that brought you ‘poonami’) and in its ideas - you’re allowed to be ‘sad’ but you’re not allowed to think.

Because ‘at its core’ MN’s a site for mummies. That’s nice and consistent, then.

Thank you @nolongersurprised . I was imagining something worse.

Poor little dab looks about 7 in the photos- like a sleeping tot. 💔

In the beginning if that interview sghe's still talking about Hospice transfer even though it has been refused

Ive just watched the latest interview, im speechless! The man with hollie described Archie as his parents property not the government's! Archie is NO ones property and they seriously cannot seem to grasp this. Then Hollie said other countries have said they can get him out of his coma and fully rehabilitate him but this country wants to " murder" him! Is there literally no one around her that can tell her the honest truth or is she just choosing to ignore it?

I feel very bad for Hollie. I'd like to think I wouldn't do the same, and I don't agree with the choices she's made, but I have no idea what I would do in this situation. And let's face it, she didn't get all this publicity on her own merit; children die every day and it doesn't get reported and some of those deaths should probably lead to a bigger debate. This is wholly down to bigger people feeding off her grief. I can only imagine a lot of this will be projection too, as a survival method, because she will not only be dealing with the loss of a child, but the knowledge that this started under her roof whilst she was at home and she missed it. And I'm not blaming her for that, but I can imagine it will have an impact. Maybe the debate we should be having is on the mental health services in this country and why she didn't have access to counselling as soon as the hospital knew death was likely. It might have helped her process that grief a little more productively.

I think this case should actually spark a bigger debate once Archie has gone. As a first world humanitarian country we need to protect human rights and that especially includes those of children.

The best interests of the child is the fundamental principle which determines the medical professionals' and the courts' approach to these cases. That will not change.

The problems arise when parents seem unable to grasp that the 'rights' or wishes of the parents can never supersede the best interests of the child, when the two are in conflict. This was what happened in the Charlie Gard case, as I recall; the parents couldn't seem to understand that it wasn't about taking away their rights as parents, but about putting Charlie's interests or rights first.

There may be a debate about what is in the bests interests of the child in any particular case; that's when the courts may be asked to decide.

But we come back to the point - how is that to be enforced if the child's family decide to plaster details all over the media? I know the Family Court manages to enforce its orders, but the fundamental problem is always going to be that there will be a massive reluctance to imprison the parent of a dying child for contempt of court.

@Supersimkin2

Public respect for calling medical practitioners murderers?
How about NO
She's in pain, yes. But she's not in any way,wise, shape or form some heroic crusader.