Issues raised by the CG case 11

[Venusflytwat]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

The telegraph article also calls Hirano a neurosurgeon - which is most definitely isn't.

And now the page has gone stupid and my imogees not working. ( feeling really intellectually challenged)

Judge probably couldn't get Facebook to close it that quick, but he could ask people to close their own accounts. Not that I think that happened - I reckon CY just wants a break from the SM insanity

The real crux of the matter is that the papers can say what the hell they want, I do not think we will find anything out and neither do I belive the papers have found out anything before the judge does.

MontyPythons I am, not neuro though. I'm very interested because this is making me think a lot about future career choices, I love working paeds ITU and NICU but would really rather not get wrapped up in a case like this. It's really making me think twice.

Portia, you were very vocal in your disgust on the thread complaining about these threads earlier, what made you decide to join in after all?

You know user, I didn't think he was but I assumed I was muddled up when I read it!

Jinglejanglejobs, are you a medical person? The number of people on these threads with actual knowledge and/or experience relevant to the Gards' situation is amazing

The cause of CGs medical problems are rare
The resulting presentations (encepalopathy, oedema etc) are not rare at all.
Lots of people have experience of aspects of CGs conditions and care (such as giving the medicine that GOSH has confirmed he has been on), albeit not the actual genetic causes

Oh my word.........................They have most likely drugged him up so they save there arses xxx

This doctor will know immediately whether or not Charlie's drugged up, someone on here who had personal experience of him gave a glowing testimonial. I don't think even devious GOSH will get one over on him

I would be watching them like a hawk wat they adminastrate (if that right) before dr gets to see him #savecharliegard💙💙💙

I hope he will but if he is on morphine that can make him sleepy and it's also not doing any good to his organs I hope the American doctor tells them to stop the morphine he has not needed it for 9months I don't understand at last min he needs it something funny going on here

What the hell is it with these people??? Do they not know the page is open and the judge or Gosh or lawyers could be reading all this shit?

Anyone else stuck with Anti Gosh relatives. My dad has now seen, in the Daily Mail, about the Butler Cole and is ranting about how disgraceful the attempts to ban treatment is.

Im stating my disgust at a newspaper

Why did that first quote not work?

11122aa, i do not talk to any relatives so I have nobody apart from friends, some friends support charlies right to treatment and some say to let him die with dignity.

Well being there are meds on here would my gdd have to study life sciences to be able to become a nuero scientist or a forensic pathologist? I've looked on several sites and units and it looks complicated especially forensic pathologist.

Urghhh someone put a quote up from the Pastor about how the doctor was treated...or how he felt he was anyway at in court.
More backlash for GOSH no doubt. Don't get why he was there in the first place!

It's my understanding (paging the lawyers on here...) that you can't libel an institution, and so insinuations that GOSH are doing terrible things are much less actionable than allegations against specific individuals, whether barristers or medics. The worst of the naming and shaming seems to have stopped on CA.

Maryz, for me it was having my brothers life support withdrawn. and then seeing all the disgusting shit on charlies army fired me up even, I have never ever been so disgusted about anything so much as the shocking treatment that Gosh as suffering at the hands of people that have no bloody idea and are ill informed.

Sostenueto Forensic pathology requires a medical degree (then specialise into pathology, then subspecialise to forensic). Neuroscience is often a degree alone if she fancies skipping the boring plant science a life sciences degree usually includes. Wish her luck and let her know UCAS isn't that scary if she's coming up to it!

All my family say quality of life before quantity.

All my family say quality of life before quantity.

I agree

And thanks for answering, Jingle. These threads move so fast.

Re neuro, my experience of it (my father died in the neuro ITU at Addenbrooke's from a brain bleed) is that there is ultimately very little that they can do about most of it, except keep you alive while your body decides whether it can right itself or not. And it seems pretty clear to me that Charlie's can't.

When we had the Room of Doom conversation with the consultant where we said we didn't want him kept alive artificially any more, the doctors were SO relieved - I think they'd been expecting to need to convince us.

I saw a Charlies Army post along the lines of "anyone who allows life support to be turned off are murderers, they are doing it because they don't love the person enough" which infuriated me

I saw one post on there that said "I can't believe some parents just let their kids die because they don't want the hassle" (about parents that didn't "fight" having life support turned off)

• I must have looked like some sort of red faced cartoon character with steam coming out my ears when I read this