Issues raised by the CG case 11

[Venusflytwat]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Thats the minimum muscle function with max bbb obviously, so max range should between 5.5 and 28%. Maximum chance on quoted figures for Charlie (again, based on a different mtDNA disorder ) is never as high as 50%, which news sources keep quoting.

I am dreading the conclusion. My dad is going to be really nasty towards me if it issint what he wants.

11122aa, why would he be nasty towards you?

Yeah my dad can be like that too 1112. Was a right arse over Brexit!!

Because he is psyhco who likes to start rows with me for no clear reason. He is totally on the Gard's side because he does not trust doctors and espescally social workers.

I don't care if you can take me seriously. You tell me not read the thread. Why don't you take your own advice and not read the CA posts - if it's that simple just step away.

Irony again, as most of this thread is about people's moral code ie:- you think it's morally wrong to keep Charlie alive, but as long as people's moral code matches yours it's ok

i know mary its really sad isnt it that thye back on an reading the sun comments it really isnt going to help them at all

Place marking.....too exhausted to contribute today.

i dont read ca posts sand but others are entitled to

i just dont undrstand you getting annoyed here

Morning all.

Have seen 2 stories relating to Charlie this mornibng following he expert's meeting. DM link (Sorry!) Apparently the NY expert has not convinced the GOSH experts about the treatment in America and also Charlie has been granted US citizenship....

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4709122/US-expert-fails-Charlie-s-doctors-reconsider.html

it doesn't even matter any more online
So long as it's posted on the internet it seems it can be taken as fact sad

That is my concern.

On a societal scale it sets my alarm bells ringing, because of the slide away from the rational and towards unquestioning faith (believe the "goodies" disbelieve the "baddies") that I mentioned before. It makes it more of a real possibility rather than a feeling in my head.

On a personal level it sets off my inner "we're doomed, dooooooomed I tell you !" voice off. I shall now go and kick it back into submission.

Hopefully by the time I take my imaginary hobnail boots off somebody somewhere will have produced something fact checked that either confirms or denies the permanent residence amendment.

Not that it matters re the crux of the case. My son has duel nationality and I am well aware that in the grand scheme of things it makes no difference. But a potential new normal of journalists and politicians running with unverified facts.......Am not liking that bit at all.

I don't have enough hours in a day to personally check facts from everything I read. I would appreciate politicos and MSM doing at least the bare minimum to make sure I am not being spoon feed bollocks with my breakfast news.

Yy online.

I know this thread is going round in circles, and I know it can at times appear to be a bit distasteful, but I'd rather be reading here than reading the likes of the Sun FB page which I got sucked into last night.

Honestly, I value this thread for the range of views. Half the time the news doesn't make much more sense than a FB thread; I appreciate being able to hear critical opinions from all sides here. And at least here not everyone has lost sight of the fact that this is about the rights of a very small boy.

Is someone trying to turn this into a bun fight? Lets just get on with it and no bun fights please.

GabsAlot someone on here posted a picture of a disabled toilet that was lit up blue and joked that they were lighting up toilets for Charlie now. This was a joke about the claim on CA that buildings all over the world have been lit up blue in support. I can't believe that you all think that is acceptable humour. My point was that mocking them with jokes like that does you no favours.

I don't for a minute condone the death threats, but that's not what last night was about.

cjt110, morning.

Sostenueto, hope you feel better soon x

I think all the posters on these threads think that Charlie needs to be allowed to die. He deserves as good a life and as good as death as possible.

To those posters who have raised concerns about these threads, no one has stopped you posting whereas in the CA group anyone not toeing the party line is deleted and banned.

I am angry that the NHS and GOSH in particular are being attacked by people in the US who have no idea what they are and what they do.

They are told to be scared of 'socialised medicine' so that's what they are.

The PP who said they were told that some people with autism were happy to share the blue lights with Charlie. Well good for them, they don't however speak for all people who have or have relatives and friends with autism so they shouldn't say that. The two campaigns are very, very different and should be kept separate.

A resolution has been put forward in Congress and sent on to the Foreign Affairs Committee from what I can see. It doesn't mention citizenship, you'll notice the title is 'encouraging the courts of the UK ...'

This was raised/considered on 13th July though, so they may have considered it more recently.

www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-resolution/444/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22charlie+gard%22%5D%7D&r=1

H.Res.444 — 115th Congress (2017-2018) Encouraging the courts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to allow Charles William Gard and Constance Rhoda Keely Yates to pursue innovative medical care for their son. Sponsor: Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4] (Introduced 07/13/2017) Cosponsors: (0) Committees: House - Foreign Affairs Latest Action: 07/13/2017 Referred to the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. (All Actions) Tracker:

This bill has the status Introduced

Here are the steps for Status of Legislation:

I think that what is being discussed now on this thread is highly relevant, not to the plight of poor CG but to the question of 'fake news' and the fact that there is a tendency to believe what you read and what you see without question.

The fact that some of our national press is relying on twitter/ SM in general as sources without verifying content is truly horrific. The rush to get 'the story' first means that any normal verification has gone completely out of the window. This is not good enough we ought to rely on national press even the tabloids to report accurately. If they do not then we can't really criticise CA for 'believing' that those buildings lit up in blue are all for Charlie.

To those complaining that this is not just about CG's case now. No it isn't - but that is because this case highlights the issues we now face with the way that news is broadcast.

I would hope that the mainstream media takes a look at itself. Surely it must have to verify stories/ sources before publishing?

And my son is diagnosed with Autism and my daughter is being assessed. It is NOT OK for the Autism cause to be hijacked by CA and particularly Laura Gard.

Muckypup, I agree.

We've had 11 threads with no bunfights. For me, the threads so far have been thoughtful, educational, thought provoking and very useful to my understanding.

Let's not start a fight eh?

GabsAlot someone on here posted a picture of a disabled toilet that was lit up blue and joked that they were lighting up toilets for Charlie now. so report it to MNHQ.

I can't believe that you all think that is acceptable humour oh! did I miss where ALL the contributers to this thread said that they agreed with that one post?

We don't all agree with each other, there have been lots of disagreement and discussion on here. There is no "party line" on this thread which is the whole point!

Like me for example I am opposed to any religious involvement in healthcare decisions, but there have been Christian contributers on a previous thread who have made interesting points about why they support GOSH's decision from a religious point of view