Issues raised by the CG case 11

[Venusflytwat]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Of course we can discuss gabsalot I will be happy to xx

Sostenueto, we have not had any thunder, its sunny and cloudy here x

I have looked on CA and I agree that some of it is crazy, but two wrongs don't make a right. However unhelpful it is to Charlie's parents cause it would not cause them offence and distress the way this thread would.

Agreed friendly snake xx just be careful OK?

Wh0Kn0wsWhereTheTimeGoes, I found it helpful to look at CA as it is the main reason that this case has taken on a life of its own.

It is a huge part of this and I didn't feel that I could comment without looking.

The family are actively engaging it in (Connie and Laura were posting last night) and are running the page.

Does anyone have any idea how CA reconcile the fact that GOSH have been keeping CG alive for this long with their belief that GOSH want to 'murder' him? To the poster who thinks this discussion should be curtailed until the court case - these threads are not just about discussing the outcome of the court case, they are also about the wider social implications of this case especially in regard to the use of social media to whip up a frenzy. While that is still going on, there is still much to discuss until the next court date.

Hell of a storm here and Cornwall not only thunderstorm but hailstones size if 50p pieces, broke windows apparently.

Wh0Kn0wsWhereTheTimeGoes, unfortunately thats what happens when you constantly use the press, people will talk and have opinions about anything, had charlies family not been in the press so much I very much doubt we would be discussing it at all.

Sandthefloor, I think if you have concerns, report them rather than de rail the thread.

The family run the CA page and have allowed threats and abuse to stand against medics and individuals on the page.

Kintan I just don't want people getting upset and ending IP having bun fights over CA. These threads have been great so far an infinite source if knowledge and experiences. That was only reason I suggested it.

Ultimately people should have at forefront of minds

• a sick and terminally ill baby
• distraught parents who seem utterly unable to face reality.
• doctors who are convinced they are acting in the best interests of Charlie.
• a faint hope there is something that might arrest his decline (very, very debatable if there is any chance at all that it will "benefit" him).

None of this is going to end well for anyone. It's incredibly sad. I think we should tone it down, although yes I like the discussion and would encourage that to continue. It is a highly unusual and emotive case. The proportion of the population who cannot understand simple statistics/reasoned arguments/facts/have no common sense astounds me. This thread is, largely, a counterbalance.

Kintan, whenever someone raises that issue, they are blocked and deleted.

There have been a couple of posts left to stand but they were told that it's not a discussion page and for support only.

It was only a suggestion, I would miss these threads an awful lot (sad).

Well said adelle

On the subject of media, these articles are outrageous?

Someone said on another thread that GOSH cannot sue, only an individual. Is this correct?

Can't put links on cis of this ropey phone but suggest people look at the sun newspaper fb page. Scroll down till you see story and read what they say.

This is the bit I find ironic. CA are accused of only allowing people to post who are in absolute agreement with them. This is deemed as a bad thing. They are controlling. Yet here I am being told I'm derailing a thread for posting that I find something distasteful and then responding to someone who directly responded to me. Do you not see the similarities?

Sandthefloor you are not derailing thread and are welcome on it as far as I am concerned and you can be funny just be careful that us all. All is forgiven and forgotten now, font want or need to fight do we? Xxxxx

Exactly Sand. Pot, kettle.

I'm following the CA page not to sneer, but in horror at how many people can't decipher fact from speculation (see the "I saw a post on it on twitter so that's proof" comments)

It's truely worrying in the wider sense. How people can turn on even the most noble of organisation through group frenzy.

This hasn't started with CA and it won't end with CA (Brexit, Trump, The villification of the doctors strike etc) but right now CA is a condensed example of what's going on in the wider sense. Facts don't matter, just headlines and viral social media posts. A distain for "experts", nobody taking the time to analyse the information they're being fed etc

I have looked on CA and I agree that some of it is crazy, but two wrongs don't make a right. However unhelpful it is to Charlie's parents cause it would not cause them offence and distress the way this thread would You're kidding right? CY has been told that her love for CG is measured by how much she fights GOSH - how is that not damaging? She's backed into a corner and right now she couldn't back down even if she wanted to!

These threads move so fast

This one will be full soon

Can I ask when the next court date is? And what's likely to be happening then?

Absolutely ridiculous the press is! Be back in a bit. Bet judge will go crazy at all this so called 'leaking' .

Sandthefloor, no you are not discussing anything, you are asking for it to stop.
That's completely different.
I am not going to engage anymore, because I don't want it to be de railed by objectors to content, rather than an opposing point of view.

I've read every thread without choosing to reply, but feel it is now time to "throw a hat into the ring". Whilst I fully commend that this is used in the true spirit of an open forum, it's very clear that most people here share and voice the same opinion on their preferred outcome. It is not my place, nor the place of anyone other than the judge to make that call. As widely read as many here are, including those with medical backgrounds, and including the many who have made heartbreaking decisions for their own loved ones, none of us have the full facts and no one has ever been placed in the position of C and C before due to the low numbers of babies with his condition and the availability of the treatment. I wholeheartedly support the British legal system in so far as it is working in Charlie's best interest, and until the judge has ruled, do not feel that any of us should be talking about what we believe his best interest to be. I can't bear the entrenched stance of Charlie's Army, but equally find this thread entrenched as well with an opposing view. I know many of you feel absolute compassion for C and C, but sometimes the posts do not reflect that. Surely we can all show empathy without sharing the same views. This whole case has been a tragedy, for the fabulous team at Gosh, for C and C and most importantly for the little boy at the centre of this. Let's just be careful in our discussions, and keep them factual and respectful.
I now wait to be flamed 🔥.

Got to say thread is going down a bit. We need to do what we usually do and not sink down to CAs level. The toilet picture was not on really.

This is the bit I find ironic. CA are accused of only allowing people to post who are in absolute agreement with them. This is deemed as a bad thing. They are controlling. Yet here I am being told I'm derailing a thread for posting that I find something distasteful and then responding to someone who directly responded to me. Do you not see the similarities?

Couldn't agree more. Can't believe the glee people have in "proving" that things aren't being lit up for Charlie. Is it hurting you? I hope his parents are OK, I don't necessarily agree with what they are doing, but I do have enough sense to realise I can't diagnose him from here, shame some people don't realise their own limitations.

These are real people, have a little respect.