Labour and anti-semitism

[LeLaluifleur]

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

Helmet - Naz Shah was 40 when she wrote those posts! Hardly young and impressionable.

Her apology is impressive, and perhaps shows a genuine change of heart.

But she should still be suspended and investigated. It was only 2 years ago after all!

Helmet the comments were made only months before she became an MP

Mm, yes thats true, and I said the same thing about Malia (27?) - who shows no sign of a turn around.

Meh, I suppose I think that anti-semitism is so entrenched now among the left that we should be grateful to accept the crumbs of an apology. Pathetic huh.

I imagine Jewish Labour MPs, staff and party members will be feeling very jittery at all this.

Helmet, I agree - unfortunately we've become so conditioned to casual antisemitism that even hearing a fellow party member say "I believe Israel should exist" is a bold statement.

I just don't understand how Ms Shah refers to Israel as Nazis. The Palestinians behaviour leaves a lot to be desired. How about Isis or Boku Haram. Their behaviour is barbaric.

i may be mistaken, but it seems pretty obvious she doesn't like jews. sadly lots of people within certain groups don't like them as they were brought up not to, second nature. people are allowed their views and you can't change them. forcing them to say 'sorry' is bollocks, they still feel the same. actually, being forced to say sorry probably only fuels their dislike. the problem is when it is a person who is in this type of position with a possible hatred that it is troubling

leopards and spots. Those tweets didn't just happen. As mentioned, they aren't from her smug student days, they are recent.

she's an anti-semite without the balls to say so.

The term "Nazi" should only be used for those who actually were Nazis in the 1930s- 1940s or those who still support their actions.
Any other use cheapens the unprecedented crimes against humanity committed by the Nazis, an attempt to exterminate an entire race in Europe, millions of people.
I don't recognise the Left I used to know (I'm almost 60)

There has been mass murder of people before and even very occasionally genocide, but the Holocaust is horrific above all else in human history because it was planned "industrial" genocide committed by an advanced country in cold blood, taking place over several years.
Also, referring to the Holocaust as "white on white crime" is the most disgusting phrase I have ever heard in political discussion.

I firmly disagree with the Israeli settlements policy and I don't believe in any race being "chosen by god" (being agnostic / atheist anyway)
However, their war with the Palestinians isn't unusual as regards wartime actions and the scale of deaths compared to most wars going on at the moment is actually very small. The outrage against Israel is very strange and disproportionate, just scapegoating.
e.g. The Coalition War in Iraq and the earlier war against Serbia each killed far more innocents and the bungling has caused far more chaos too.

In comparison, the Shia-Sunni wars have been going on for many centuries and are continuing now. Minorities are being enslaved, raped, slaughtered in their thousands in the Middle East and it's not Israel doing it. Completely one-sided outrage.

My late mother's Coptic Christian Arab extended family have all been forced out of the ME; they're now in the USA, dozens of totally non-political people. Too dangerous to stay, especially for women.
Christians were 20% of the ME population in the early 20th century, with a history going back to the early 1st millenium. Now they number 2% and getting fewer all the time. That's religious / ethnic cleansing.

Historically, the Jews were persecuted for many centuries by Christians as "Christ-killers" and as soon as that died down they were scapegoated by a section of militant Islam, who are largely funded by theocratic nutjobs, ruling in countries where oil was found before reason.

A major reason why there are so few Jews in the world - isn't it about 17 million total ? - is that nearly everyone else over the centuries has taken a turn at killing them.
Of course they want and deserve a country that will always take them in.

"Naz Shah has now been suspended.'

Good. That is right and proper. Maybe JC is finally catching on.

Big choc, that's really interesting (and terribly tragic) about the Coptic Christians. Thank you.

Hugo Rifkind on twitter " the Labour party have somehow contrived to appear less aware of antisemitism than the person they've just suspended for it."

Claig, thanks for 're-posting the link.

I am also annoyed by a meme that is going around Facebook that says: 'Substitute the word Jew for Muslim and now ask yourself: Am I a fucking Nazi?' My intelligent, ex-journalist Leftie friend (she is black and her fiance is a Turkish muslim; she shared the post on fb) will not accept that this is a perfect example of victimhood hierarchy (competetive suffering - pitting 'Islamophobia' against the suffering of the jews) and that it is offensive and crass (in fact, she doesn't believe in victimhood hierarchy; doesn't see it.)

The Left are absolutely obsessed with all things Muslim. The article I quoted from explains why.

Antisemitism is racism, just as bad as being anti-Muslim

I don't like this phrase for much the same reason; as though being anti-Muslim (is this really a thing?) is the yardstick by which all other bigotry can be measured.

Hugo Rifkind on twitter " the Labour party have somehow contrived to appear less aware of antisemitism than the person they've just suspended for it.

Yep that just about sums it up...

The claim that Jeremy Corbyn is Anti-Semitic is ludicrous. This is just the latest attempt by the right to bring the Labour leader down.

Criticising Israel or Zionists does not add up to "Anti-Semitism". Simple really and I think the vast majority see this for what it is..

Yawn.

Claiming that Jeremy Corbyn is Anti-semitic is ludicrous.

No one is claiming that.

Criticising Israel or Zionist does not add up to Anti-semitism.

No one is claiming that.

Have you learnt nothing?

"The claim that Jeremy Corbyn is Anti-Semitic is ludicrous."

Not a single post on this thread has claimed JC is anti-semitic, please RTFT. However he JC so far not dealt robustly with anti-semitism in his party, which is crap.

This is just the latest attempt by the right to bring the Labour leader down."

You sound a bit paranoid. Who is attempting this and why? Please clarify and link to evidence. otherwise this comment is simply non-sensical.

Criticising Israel or Zionists does not add up to "Anti-Semitism". Simple really and I think the vast majority see this for what it is.."
The only simple thing is your statement I'm acarid and your critical thinking skills Not sure to which vast majority you are referring to either.

Olivia can't you see that anti-zionism in many cases is thinly disguised (or not disguised) anti-semitism? Do you think Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz' statements such as this on twitter Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain and Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history are 'anti-zionist' but not anti-semitic? Really?

Olivia have you got such little understanding of history to not understand that for labour councillor Naz Shah to say all israelis should be 'relocated and talking about the economic 'transportation cost of such a hypothetical transportation is totally unacceptable, stupid, insensitive? Do you know about the NAZIs 'relocating' jews and transporting them off to the concentration camps? FFS/

Just so you now Olivia Mr Corbyn considers "the comments made to be anti-Semitic" www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3561296/Jeremy-Corbyn-brands-Muslim-Labour-MP-suggested-Israel-relocated-offensive-unacceptable-WON-T-kick-party.html

Your posts are a fine example of the simple mindedness of lefties who are pro-palstiains and anti-zionsit / anti-Semitic, appalling, really.

I wanted to recommend Trevor Philips chat with Dominic Lawson www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b078hlsz

I don't agree with everything, obviously, but he has a lot of interesting things to say, things that could be applied to how some on the 'well-meaning' left regard both Muslims and Jews.

Criticising Israel or Zionists does not add up to "Anti-Semitism". Simple really and I think the vast majority see this for what it is..

Enlighten me.

Sadly Ms Shah will now be swamped with all sorts of social media death threats. Such is free speech. I agree with free speech but there is just no responsibility accountabity with it.

Didn't she originally try to blame her sister for the posts? Racist, bigoted and a liar.

Olivia The Holocaust is not some weird ideological abstract, you know? 70 ago
Millions of Jewish people including 1.5 million children were picked up from their hoes to be 'relocated' to experience systematic torture, humiliation and killing in Europe. Do you even know this?

*picked up from their homes

Didn't she originally try to blame her sister for the posts?

No, that's a different racist. Unfortunately there are plenty of them.

I hope Ms Shah comes back though: I do think her apology was surprisingly full-some and she seems in general quite smart. There's no reason she couldn't be a powerful anti-racism campaigner one day.

also I think Islamic extremism and radicalism is a threat to the UK. Israel is defending it's borders to some extent and I'm not saying this is right but have any of the Jewish people in Europe or the UK caused any problems for us?

Perhaps the offensive mps/councillors need to look at their own communities and see what they are up to.

My grandfather was at the opening of one of the camps when the war ended. It is not some ye olde historical event that may or may not have happened. It was witnesses and the nazi regime being what it was, well documented.

Sadly in the uk nowadays there are too many people now who don't have any links to the events (ie hearing first hand from people who saw), come from another part of the world and are ignorant of the history/don't give a monkeys, or have managed to get through life never having picked up a history book.

Olivia you sound like a naïve young left winger.