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Investigate 9/11 part II (if we're not all 9/11'd out)

133 replies

JanH · 03/01/2007 22:32

Original thread here

OP posts:
JoolsToo · 04/01/2007 21:39

yes she's ok, she's a good friend of ggglimpopo, you've seen the thread?

ludaloo · 04/01/2007 21:46

I have seen them now......that is awful...how truly awful...that news saddens me to the pit of my stomach

Blandmum · 04/01/2007 21:52

Ludaloo, and if your theory is true, no-one on the ground notice that there were no pilots on board? None of the people that 'send' the plane off? Please! None of the air setweardesses? YThey check with the pilots you know.

Blandmum · 04/01/2007 21:54

sorry, but to my mind it is every bit as crazy as it sounds. people fuel up plnes, direct them from the departure gate etc etc. This is utter nonsense

BigBellyCornflakeKid · 04/01/2007 21:55

My sister (lives in boston) was due to be on the flight from Boston on 9/11 - 7 of her friends/colleagues died. When the terrorists caught plotting to blow up the planes to the states in the summer - both she and my 12 year old nephew were due to fly back to the states on one of those flights. It is terrifying and I don't believe invading countries anywhere in the world in the 'war on terror' is going to stop these people.

Although it is my sister this has happened to - the thought of her flying terrifies me. She (and nephew) just flew over for christmas and back - and I was so so worried and anxious - until that plane touches the ground nothing makes you feel better - no-one can say 'oh they'll be fine' because you just don't know.

Aloha · 04/01/2007 21:59

Promised myself I would not come back to this but this constant assertion that 'pull' means explode/demolish. It's rubbish. Can anyone find me an example of the word used in that context outside the conspiracy theories? They used the word pull when demolishing another building because they were - literally - pulling it down! They had attached wires and were pulling it.
We also have the phrase 'pull out' meaning to retreat.
The whole conspiracy theory about WTC7 seems to depend on 'pull' meaning 'demolish/explode' but it doesn't.

JoolsToo · 04/01/2007 23:04

mb - this page is interesting regarding what I was saying earlier about the US reactions not being that great - re air defence

here

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 10:37

No..if you read what I put mb...Genuine Pilots could have been on board....

I no nothing of aviation.....well aware you know very much about it....

It was a thought...that is all...

I know it is possible for an aircraft to be controlled by someone outside the craft...I am assuming so as there are "Drone Planes"...remote controlled aircraft is used for all kinds of things.....

I have no idea if once in the air...manual controls can be de-mobilised and remote controls take over flight.

You know..the calls were all so calm....no screaming passengers etc...
The pilots could have lost control toward the end...and pannicked themselves...but you would never know what happened because communication was lost in the black boxes was it not??? They could have dis-connected the pilots communication anyway??

Like I say...I don't know enough to believe this...I don't know enough about the flight paths...the controls or anything technical...

It was just a thought....I didn't see logistically that this was impossible...

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 10:41

Aloha....."Pull" doeas indeed mean withdraw... to Pull out...but the point is...there was no one to "pull" out...the building was empty...

It was evacuated and the decision was taken not to fight the fire...
When Silversteign got the message they were going to "PULL"..... the building was empty.

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 10:45

Bigbelly I'm sorry to hear of your sisters loss...it truly was a major loss of life...and very sad circumstances!
And understandably would make anyone nervous to fly..

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 11:38

WTC 7 fall is the wierdest of them all....

I would also like to know more about why the steel and debree was cleared so quickly...and where it actually went....

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 11:52

I know I'm actually talking with myself at the moment!
But I was also thinking about how 10 years previous to the invasion of Iraq...
Whilst G.Bush Senior was in power...there was an American led invasion on Kuwait...to get saddam and his peeps out...
It was more of a UN influenced affair...and they were never actually able to war with Iraq...
Its very interesting that G.Bush Junior gained power...and shortly after...there was a war on Iraq and Saddam was caught.

And also there are a lot more political, historical events which suggest motives to war with Iraq.
The Bin Laden family is hugely into Oil....as is the Bush family....
There are ties between the two families because of this.
Bush Senior and another member of the Bin Laden family were in the same organisation of people who had massive shares in oil....

JoolsToo · 05/01/2007 12:22

don't talk to yourself love - have a listen to this

Who's fault is it if there are conspiracy theories? Tell the whole truth, not too much to ask.

JoolsToo · 05/01/2007 12:27

\link{http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040805095600503\and here the written word)

"Command center - 'Uh, do we want to, uh, think about scrambling aircraft?' - FAA headquarters - 'Oh God, I don't know.' - Command center - 'Uh, that's a decision somebody's going to have to make probably in the next 10 minutes.' - FAA headquarters - 'Uh, yeah, you know, everybody just left the room."

I've actually heard this recorded convo on the tv documentary only this last week.

Scary huh?

JoolsToo · 05/01/2007 12:27

and here the written word

Papillon · 05/01/2007 12:39

Posters, including me, who have been contributing are stepping down from this thread out of respect for GGGlimpopo

just in case you wondered where everyone has gone

((((BigBellyCornflakeKid))))

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 14:23

Jools.....very interesting indeed....I had heard that conversation too....
Maybe even without my knowledge of aviation my theory is not too far fetched...

Um....If this thread is ending...(and I wouldn't want to offend anyone by keeping it going) can I just say thanks to you all...what a brilliant debate! It has really got my brain working again! I have plenty to go away and think about and continue to look into.
MB...hope I haven't offended you...no hard feelings I hope.
I'll be sad to not share my thoughts...but hopefully it won't go away completely!

And Jools....you have summed it up brilliantly for me....

"Who's fault is it if there are conspiracy theories? Tell the whole truth, not too much to ask."

peacedove · 05/01/2007 16:28

A long, long, time ago, I thought I understood some Chemistry, Physics and Metallurgy. Anyway, I haven't really exercised my brain on the scientific arguments, too lazy for that, but there are a few things I would like to say:

  1. MB's point about the temperature not having to be great enough to melt the steel is valid. The softeneing of steel takes place at much lower than melting, and the steel does lose its strength.

However, the heat required to soften the steel is still too high for people to be walking around.

  1. I can't believe MB wrote this:
"When a gas is heated it expants, rapidly and flows. It would flow down counduits etc, and would not distribute evenetly."

flow down? I think it would rather flow up.

  1. and ludaloo's argument is valid that if there is variation of temperature, the strength would be reduced in an unequal manner, and we would see twisting and uneven collapse.
peacedove · 05/01/2007 16:32

maybe you can have a have a look at this

themoon66 · 05/01/2007 16:39

I understand that gas flows down actually... I know if there is a gas leak, the gas board have to suck it out of the drains, where it sinks to. It lies in ditches etc.

Blandmum · 05/01/2007 16:47

PD it depends on the density of the gas

colinandcaitlinsmommy · 05/01/2007 18:15

Stepping down out of respect for ggglimpo? And yet people were jumping down other people's throats when it was suggested to stop posting out of respect for Kateandthegirls? I know I will probably be reamed for this, but I find that laughable. I know it is really stupid, but that comment irks me.

Ok, so I've been lurking throughout the course of the 2 threads, and I wanted to post something earlier, but I did agree with whoever said that we don't really know how KATG feels, so I kept quiet. And I get the freedom of speech argument, etc. But one thing that has really struck me is that with all these theories being thrown around and people NEEDING to prove that they are right, there has been such a trivialization of the human lives that were lost on this day with comments like "won't we be the first to get a huge grin when this all gets proven" and saying how 2,000 and some people dying was such a small number compared to those who died in Iraq among other comments that I can't remember, and don't have time to go find.

Don't get me wrong, I think that many people dying is a hard concept to wrap the mind around. I know that I didn't really "get" it until Kate had some of us go through pictures recovered from the WTC's and it was emotionally very hard looking at those realizing there was a great probablility that many of the people in those pictures had a loved one die.

I also have met someone who had a very close family member die in the attack. I can't tell you how KATG would feel about this, but I can tell you how my friend would. She is quite saddned about the whole thing. She has heard about the movie and other conspiracy theories, and is really sad about them, because so many of them are just speculation that can't be proven, and she feels that so many of the "experts" who seem to be perpetuating these ideas really don't have a lot of credibility to back them up.

Don't get me wrong, I totally believe there's things out there the government covered up, and we'll never know what happened. And I do agree that the government really helps perpetuate these ideas by keeping so much in a shroud of secrecy. But from what I've seen there is so much at least in the movie that is just conjecture that isn't backed up by fact, I'm keeping out of it. And I happen to agree with Martinbishop about Occem's Razor. To me the simplest and most obvious explanation is that our government is run by a confederacy of dunces who can't handle a crisis situation. If you don't believe me, just look at the way we handled the Hurricane Katrina disaster, and the ineptitude and bumbling of the powers that be that caused needless death and more suffering that could have been averted if they had reacted in a better way when they saw it coming.

peacedove · 06/01/2007 09:31

Hot gases have a much lower density. They should rise.

Blandmum · 06/01/2007 09:48

I have poured co2

It would expand in all directions, in part

JoolsToo · 06/01/2007 10:03

there you go - you two physicists can't agree even on this!

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