Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

what is the other side? that it is ok to kill civilians in their beds? that it's ok to bomb un schools and hospitals, ok to murder whole families and then defecate in their homes and smear it on the walls?

i should hope it is fairly one sided. in a sane world it would be entirely one sided because no one would want to justify such behaviour.

I reckon thousands of Palestinians have a much better grasp of one-sidedness. Palestinians will experience Israeli control every single day on so many levels. Can they get through the checkpoint to get to school/work/hospital today? How long will it take this time? How many hours will they have electricity today? How can they ensure their emotionally scarred kids (at least they survived the bombing!) will not succumb to disease in the unsanitary conditions? Where will they be living when the winter comes round? Will their illegally detained relative be freed soon? Will they have soldiers shoving rifles in their faces and telling them not to ruin settler 'peace and quiet' by speaking Arabic when they go to tend their goats/olives later? And so on and so on for all the endless ordinary daily tasks ...

Dunno why this just came to mind but in relation to Israels tolerance for gays (israel being no less than a refuge for gay Palestinians, if we believe earlier posts), this demonstrates another double standard: we'll take the 'promised land', thank you, but we'll just ignore that bit about 'lying with another man' being an 'abomination'!

in case it wasn't clear the million times said already the critique of israel's actions here is not pro hamas or anti israel but pro human rights, pro international law, pro the protection of civilians and pro the prosecuting of war crimes and application of sanctions and boycotts to those who commit them. the only 'other side' to that is to be anti human rights (if it's a group of humans you don't like or it's a group of humans you do like suppressing them), anti protection of civilians (if you decide the civilians in question are not 'nice people like us'), pro war crimes etc.

what sane person not blinded by racism and prejudice would be on this 'other side'?

on the "one sided" nonsense, please feel free to express your opinion on this question:

"If there was a state whose policy was to ethnically cleanse its territory, and that of its neighbour of Jews, stealing people's homes and land simply because they were Jewish, and giving that land and those homes to incoming non-Jews, that would be wicked, illegal, immoral and inhumane. If that state said that the non-Jews had the right to take over those Jewish homes and land, simply because they were non-Jews, then you could reasonably describe that state, and its people, and its policy, as racist, or perhaps as fascist.

If there was a state and a people that did exactly the same to people simply because they were non-Jews, and to declare that the Jews had the right to take over the homes and land, then you could reasonably describe that state, and its people, and its policy, as racist, or perhaps as fascist. The state which is doing that is Israel.

Is there a way in which you can say it is not a racist, or fascist, policy?"

It makes me sick when I hear Pro-israelis moan that the thread is one-sided.

I wonder if those who declare the thread one-sided would say the same if they were Gazans and Israel bombed them every few years killing and maiming them and their loved ones.

Where is humanity?
which side are you on?

israel apartheid in action
In a nutshell, jewish villages will be able to keep Arabs out of their neighbourhoods. No apartheid in Israel!

Boycott israel!

I posted letters today to all the m and s stores i could remember visiting (about 22). I cut out labels from clothes I'd previously bought there and stuck them onto the page along with shreds of the vouchers they sent me (obviously stepping up their marketing in response to a biting boycott) using my BDS stickers. If everyone else started doing the same, maybe they might consider making some changes? Small postage cost for a whole heap of satisfaction!

Did anyone else listen to the media in the middle east archive on 4 prog last sat? Just caught up with it and found it very depressing. But also quite clever and sneaky. The media war has obviously kicked into a higher gear. Want to think of ways round that. However, in the same way that noone believes politicians any more, i think the bbc has blown it, too. Social media must be the way forward - despite the Beeb's attempted dismissal of it as 'polarised' and 'encouraging ever more entrenched positions' rather than generating dialogue and exchange. (They just had to discredit social media after pointing out that the palestinians were 'winning the social media war'!). Well, they could lead by example on that if they wanted. But no, it's all about maintaining the establishment status quo, so who needs balance, exchange and dialogue??

bbc has totally blown it. still seriously think everyone should (as i have) cancel their tv licence payments in protest.

Londongirl: To be pro palestine= pro israel.. And vice versa. Any supporter of israeli policy in palestine is a traitor to israel who only wants its destruction by supporting its self destruct policies. Simple really.

Is anyone taking part in the "I Remember the Children" bridge tribute as part of tomorrow's World Peace Day?

I have the tags for my flower tributes, but I need to buy the flowers. Tbh, last time I placed tributes, I felt very self-conscious (silly, I know), and by the next day, the flowers remained but the tributes had been removed.

If Israel were to give up its land to the muslim militants or whoever else wants it, do you think they would stop terror and live in peace?

Seriously, you don't have to be pro Israel to see that the whole world is under threat of Islamic terrorists who want sharia law imposed globally.

Hate Israel and the Jews, Catholics and Christians all you want. The democratic world does not want global Islam which is why the west will always support Israel.

And just to put it into context, this is the size of Israel. The countries surrounding it are muslim. Where are they all helping out their 'brothers'. Bit of tumbleweed there

www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4706/gazan-hamas-war-crimes

"If Israel were to give up its land to the muslim militants"

a very loaded perspective there.

How about "if Israel were to stop stealing homes and land from Palestinians, which it is still doing today?" That would certainly be a step in the right direction. Sadly it is one tiny step which Israel and its supporters are not willing to take.

I've just read London girl's link. What can I say?? How about this?

D, a doctor, says "black is white". Another employee from the same hospital, P, who also wears a white coat, said "black is always going to be white". Not only has Z, the director of the centre's a&e unit, pointed out that "there's plenty of instances where you can see that white is really black", but L, another person who wants to remain anonymous, agrees with her, crooning "ebony is ivory" over and over again, in a lovely harmonic rendition of the slogan.

You dont have to believe everything you read! PS for the avoidance of any doubt, the above info (between "D, a doctor..." and "the slogan") is completely made up drivel to illustrate the notion of very subjective sources lacking credibility.

If I was Dave Gorman, I might consider writing some similar pieces, then send them to a range of publishers and gauge their readiness to print different perspectives, and make a whole show out of it.

Black is still black. Israel is still behaving illegally, immorally and outrageously. And, btw, no other blackness anywhere else, would change that, EVEN IF there was any proven substance to the subjective claims published by the gatestone institute. Your argument is therefore spurious on 2 counts!

It's disappointing that Londongirl and Israel's other supporters are not able to come up with a reason why she might think that Israel's policies are not racist, or fascist.

I totally agree London Girl.

no instead she iterates some more racism. 'their brothers' - they're all the same them muslims, never mind nationality, culture, economics, political issues etc they all look the same to me so surely they are?

ffs.

they all wear them funny teacloths on their heads and they're all warmongering terrorists out to get us nice folks. poor old israel surrounded by them nutters.

seriously - ffs! that constitutes an argument?

perhaps just to make that 'map' take another twist it could then redraw the map in terms of US dollars flowing in and size of military - re: the country with the most advanced, brutal, well funded, up to date military would be the largest. it would be a striking contrast to that map and make a very, very clear point about the level of favouritism and money being offered to that tiny (though bigger than it has a right to be if it would stop stealing land) country by western power interests.

AND then maybe you could draw it again with the sizes being relative to the number of countries invaded in the last 10 years (or if you prefer no. of cross border military exercises resulting in trespass and murder). that too might prove illuminating.

you know all those big countries around that little one? the only thing they really ask is, 'stay off my land' and stop murdering civilians or creating situations where we have to pick up your mess by dealing with hundreds of thousands of refugees because of you. it's not much to ask of your neighbours.

Here's why all those Muslim countries (part of the global sharia takeover???) don't stand up against the Zionist bully. Nothing to do with lack of 'brotherhood', but because they've been bought off (well, their leaders have). www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/Billions-cant-buy-peace-in-the-Middle-East. Don't believe the headline that 'Egypt gets more than anyone else': as usual, Israel is a 'special case' and obviously gets the actual lion's share (virtually as much as all the rest combined excluding Afghanistan and Pakistan!). Nothing new or surprising here, but again throws into relief the myth of the massive Arab 'threat'. Would be interesting to factor in other donations and support as I suspect Israel gets a lot more here too than anyone else.

"i am sick of Israel and I am sick of Zionists. They are propped up by evangelical Christians who cannot wait for the Arabs to kill them so that their genocidal war god whom they misname Jesus can come back."
Roseanne Barr, US comedian, writer, director.

Good to see you all respond so predictably.