DD doesn't have a uni Term 3

[Globules]

Just that really.

She chose modules this year, her first year, that all completed in terms 1 & 2.

She has no lectures and no assignments, nothing, until October 2025.

£9250 academic fees, plus 39 week let fees.

Surely this can't be considered ok?!

Is it worth going to university then?

So from what I can see, becoming a doctor or an engineer - where you have practical skills on the other side, that's worth it and the number of hours you do at uni prove this - it's more like 9am to 5pm.

But for other degrees? Low contact hours, lots of self study.

There was discussion to reduce some courses to two years as three really wasn't needed.

Would it be better to have uni for low contact courses online? Are people just going to uni for the social experience and learning to grow up a bit? Start working part-time?

I’m surprised pp are bothered about the rent

Because it's a significant expense? Shes in halls and it was a 43 week contract, much of which she wont use. i didnt realise quite how short the "year" was.
Because the maintenance loan doesn't touch it...

Because DD (despite lots here blithely saying "get a job") hasn't found a job, although looking from september, to supplement it...

Not true. Many gave three terms but two semesters. Semester meaning the periods of teaching and assessment and term being when it isn't the holidays.

I had (25 years ago), 3 terms as standard where halls were available etc. 2 semesters ran over the top so semester 1 ran till January with the second set of modules starting in late Jan and running till assessment in May and June.

The Christmas holiday between terms 1 and 2 was within semester 1 and the Easter holiday between terms 2 and 3 was within semester 2.

Is it worth going to university then?
The data says yes. Graduates are more likely o earn more over their lifetime and are less likely to be unemployed. The graduate premium will vary between subjects if course.

So from what I can see, becoming a doctor or an engineer - where you have practical skills on the other side, that's worth it and the number of hours you do at uni prove this - it's more like 9am to 5pm.
But for other degrees? Low contact hours, lots of self study.

86% of graduate employers don't specify a specific degree subject. They're looking for the skills that are developed as part of university study. Students should be making the most of their time at university by engaging in the range of things that are on offer that sit outside the teaching on their course.

There was discussion to reduce some courses to two years as three really wasn't needed.

There is a market for this, it has an impact on staffing and means students don't have the opportunity to work and earn money over the summer. But it suits some people and some courses.

Would it be better to have uni for low contact courses online? Are people just going to uni for the social experience and learning to grow up a bit? Start working part-time?

There is a market for online courses but it is a different experience and the research suggests it's not what your average 18 year old UG student wants.

Is it worth going to university then?
The data says yes. Graduates are more likely o earn more over their lifetime and are less likely to be unemployed. The graduate premium will vary between subjects if course.

You can’t just look at average data and say ‘yes’. For a lot of degrees at specific institutions the answer is ‘no’. Some degrees have even been shown to to reduce lifetime earnings. Plus you can’t consider the data for those who graduated thirty years ago and apply it to today’s cohort. And even comparing ‘graduates’ against ‘non graduates’ is not helpful from a policy perspective (rather than as an individual). How many ‘graduate’ jobs actually require a degree? Or has the increasing number of graduates meant employers now demand degrees as a means to sort applicants rather than because they are needed?

I was surprised at how low the contact hours can now be for an engineering degree. I think the days of 9am - 1pm lectures and 2pm - 5pm labs every day are long gone.

This thread highlights what an absolute bargain Oxbridge is - 3 full terms of teaching (except in finals year) for most students AND accommodation in college where you only pay for 24 weeks.

It surely must be the cheapest university experience!

Is that right that the best universities are also the cheapest, when their graduates are likely to go on to lucrative careers with chunky graduate premiums*?

*yes I know best is subjective/controversial/other unis are better etc
** and also lots of people from other unis earn more etc etc and some Oxbridge graduates go into low paid jobs etc etc

BUT why are we ok with the total cost of a uni experience (fees + living costs) being wildly variable, and lowest at (some) of the best unis, but when it’s suggested that different degrees should come with different tuition fees because they cost more to deliver/are more valuable everyone goes bananas?!

oops I forgot that asterisks muck up the formatting!

BUT why are we ok with the total cost of a uni experience (fees + living costs) being wildly variable, and lowest at (some) of the best unis, but when it’s suggested that different degrees should come with different tuition fees

When tuition fees were first introduced, the government of the time said universities would use them to compete so less popular universities would offer courses more in cheaply to compete for students. Of course, they all immediately charged the maximum.

Oxbridge probably is much better value for money than most, but they also have a much more intensive course (and Saturday lectures) so it is a lot harder to hold down a job in term time.

Of course, they all immediately charged the maximum.

They didn't, some did charge less than £9k. However, students perceived these as lower quality so it was a student recruitment nightmare. Also, within a few years cost began to rise so anyone charging lower fees needed to go to the maximum.

To cover cost fees really need to be set at around £14-15k.

@worstofbothworlds does it have to be all research or all teaching. I think the uni I attended in the mid 1980s (which would be labelled a research uni now) had staff who focussed on one or the other to a greater or lesser degree. I definitely think there is a market for compressed degrees in the UK (for financial reasons if nothing else).

She should start preparing for the next year then. Doing reading if lists are available etc.

@PearlStork the problem is that for academic members of staff it is very difficult to progress your career without doing research.

Also, research informs teaching so it is beneficial for students to be taught by staff who are also active researchers.

I agree that the Oxbridge lifestyle constraints aren't for the faint hearted. Having to move out of your room every term, having such very long holidays away from your university friends (because you can't stick around because you have no accommodation), having such intense terms is pretty unusual. Quite a lot of Oxbridge undergraduates seem rather desperate to leave after 3 years.

Most students have exams throughout Term 3. Final Years have dissertations. We academics have a very tight turnaround to get everything marked for 3rd year graduations, and progression boards for Years 1 and 2. It all needs to be done by early June.

Presumably @Globules your DD chose a course and/or modules with now Summer term exams or other assessments.

The penny-pinching mindset on this thread is so short sighted.

You are all so bloody lucky that your DC have the chance to attend world class universities for a very low tuition fee. The UK HE system is one of the best in the world. International students are prepared to pay up to 3 times the UK home student fee (and subsidise your DC by doing so) and invest in themselves and their future.

I suggest you all stop kvetching.

My students don't have coursework other than assessments to do in Summer Term. But we offer a really enriching programme of student led practical and research opportunities, which allow them. to follow their interests in work that isn't assessed but definitely helps with their studies. It's fully resourced by my department. Probably only one-third of our undergrads takes up the various opportunities we offer. Some ask whether they can get marks & credit for what they do in the Summer Term - whereas we want to give them freedom (within a structure of soft touch support) from being assessed for every little thing they do. We want them to learn.

So, you know, maybe it's your DC who don't care enough to really exploit all the resources and opportunities their universities offer.

This might be an option for a humanities degree, but DD didn't have a reading list for her STEM degree. She wouldn't have known specifically what topics to read up on.

So, you know, maybe it's your DC who don't care enough to really exploit all the resources and opportunities their universities offer.

May be they can’t afford to? Maybe they need to work part time and their ‘penny pinching’ is what enables them to get by day by day? Maybe the idea of a £60k debt hangs heavy on their shoulders? May be they are doing a course like law where only 20% actually manage to enter the profession?

Yes mine can't afford to live there once the term is over.

I'm talking about what we offer during Term 3/Summer Term. Not once it's over.

100% agree with this. Those degrees that are intensive, lots of practical learning, medicine, engineering etc etc have at uni. Others, do it all online. It will save the university money not having to maintain the real estate, and us parents with the costs of the YP accommodation etc.

Perhaps with the adaptations that Covid bought we need to capitalise on the changes. I work for the police and they are looking at compressing the degree as well as digitalising much of the content.

It's two semesters at my uni and finished by end of May.

You won't get training in research unless your lecturers do research. And you can't learn at a higher education level unless you learn about research. That is literally what HE is - learning about the latest findings but also HOW we know things.
It's why a degree is valuable, because the students know how to find out new things, not just facts.
And to all those complaining about low contact hours, the students are SUPPOSED to be studying independently not being fed facts.

I can assure you that, 40 years ago with much higher contact hours, we weren’t being ‘fed facts’.

If there is nothing happening between exams and September, why are halls allowed to charge?

Genuine question, I don’t have a DC at uni yet.

My friend came round tonight.

I asked about her 4 children's uni experiences. Her youngest is 20, eldest 30.

All 4 children had lectures/exams/ assignments during term 3, with official things ending in mid June for them. Her 4th has just gone back for her term 3, year 2 lectures/exams that finish in June.

I feel vindicated!