DD doesn't have a uni Term 3

[Globules]

Just that really.

She chose modules this year, her first year, that all completed in terms 1 & 2.

She has no lectures and no assignments, nothing, until October 2025.

£9250 academic fees, plus 39 week let fees.

Surely this can't be considered ok?!

I thought when fees were introduced that the cost per student was calculated around £6000, but all universities went ahead and charged the capped amount of £9000?

That's not what happened. There were a few factors at play here.
Costs vary between courses, some classroom based courses were costing less than £9k to run but others were costing much more than £9k.
Variable fees were never really viable unless you wanted to decimate particular subject areas.
To charge more than £6k a university had to have an access and participation plan, so had to evidence what they were doing to widen access.

Some universities chose not to charge the full £9k ( I know one uni who apparently worked out their degree courses cost £8k so that's what they charged. )
But costs (and expectations) increased so it wasn't long before all universities were charging the maximum amount. This amount had not covered the cost of a UG degree for years.

Where is the £15000 in today's money coming from. Putting 2012 to 2025 in an inflation calculator is not giving me close to that amount. £6000 from 2012 to 2025 is less than £9000. £9000 from 2012-2025 gives me appx £12000. But perhaps the calculator is using a different measure of inflation.

Our vice chancellor (and others) have stated that fees should now sit at between £14k-15k.
This takes into account a wide range of factors. The inflation calculator I used suggested it sits at about £13.5k so not too far off.

I'm asking because I keep seeing this £15000 fees mentioned and it is being repeated by many. £15000 per year is a shocking amount to be casually thrown about and expect our young people to take as loans. Do you have children, or teenagers of university age and would you be happy with them paying that?

What's the alternative? Either the government needs to invest in HE or it needs to come from the students.
Even if we dramatically reduced the number of universities (which I don't agree with) that education still costs more than £9k.

I find it really, really sad.
I'm involved in international recruitment and the differences in attitudes towards education can be quite stark.

Yes, UK parents don't really value what they have ...

What do you mean other nations are prepared to pay for it? A UK education? Those that can, yes, sure. Other nations aren't saddling their own young people with such large debts. The US has a different model so is not comparable. Do you have children? Do you understand the mental anguish they experience taking on this debt? I sympathise with university lecturers and have high respect for our HE education. But don't appreciate the disdain for the parents trying to do the best by their young people.

It is technically possible. My students don’t finish until the end of July. I don’t have time for conferences or research that’s for sure. Two weeks off in august, a week off in September and back to it with a new cohort mid September.

Not sure how Universities get away with this. What a con. And then accommodation costs to pay as well when they needn’t even be there and can go home.

What makes it a con?
Universities are delivering what they've advertised. And they're making a loss to boot 🤷🏼‍♀️

But don't appreciate the disdain for the parents trying to do the best by their young people..

I'm a parent. I've also didn't years studying young people's views on university debt. Particularly those from low socioeconomic backgrounds. There is no disdain.
But someone has to pay for it...how do you think it should be funded?

It definitely concerns parents more than the students!

@HighLadyofTheNightCourt thanks for replying so I don't have to. After sloggingy guts out today and putting in 3 hours of unpaid overdue after answering panicking students late last night...a bank holiday no less ...I am not appreciating the whining parents.

@LittleBigHead @HighLadyofTheNightCourt
Students cannot pay more. They are already in enough debt as it is with the current fees and accommodation costs.
There needs to be another model. Possibly, degrees broken up with work like some European countries to bring down costs or two year degrees or employer contributions for graduates. I don't have the answers but I do know that parents/students have a right to complain about how much money they spend or feel coerced into spending.
It costs more per head for a university education in the UK than any other country in the world other than the USA or Luxembourg. This suggests that the university experience can be trimmed back to make it more affordable. It may not be as good as it is now but students/parents cannot afford more.

I had that too but in my Uni it's two semesters now not terms.

One of the ways that universities keep their heads above water financially is by the millions of hours of unpaid overtime worked by academics and some professional services staff. I regularly do a 50 hour week, and find it hard to take all my annual leave.

I don't have the answers but I do know that parents/students have a right to complain about how much money they spend or feel coerced into spending.

Who is coercing you into spending money?

It costs more per head for a university education in the UK than any other country in the world other than the USA or Luxembourg.
You say this on every thread and not only has it been pointed out to you that it's not entirely true, it's also very difficult to compare like for like.

This suggests that the university experience can be trimmed back to make it more affordable. It may not be as good as it is now but students/parents cannot afford more.

Except the students don't want us to cut back on the student experience. They want us to do more!

I spent today looking at my leave, thinking I won't be able to take all of it - professional services staff.

I taught as an academic too at one stage - the students are meant to prepare for classes not just turn up and expect to be spoonfed.

It's so disheartening isn't it?
Especially when a particular poster accuses us of 'navel gazing' and being 'me,me, me' when we're all putting in significant amounts of unpaid overtime to support our students.

Yep

And yep!

Can see where the ridiculous levels of entitlement come from though!

And thanks @HighLadyofTheNightCourt and @LittleBigHead for deciphering my typos as I'm too tired to type properly clearly!

Can see where the ridiculous levels of entitlement come from though!.

Totally. Nobody is winning at the moment

This is a very sad thread, especially as in the main it seems to be academics pitted against parents/students.

Universities need more money but the govt won’t give them any more - at least not significantly more to make a difference.

The problem with saying just put up the fees to £15k (& the inflation and cost arguments for that may well be justified) is the question of who pays.

If it’s students (ie students actually end up paying the fees in full), then it will make universities only accessible to the wealthy.

If it’s the govt, then that’s really the taxpayer and the govt (of any party) do not want to fund this instead of health/welfare and now defence.

If it’s student loans, then the higher fees will mean much more of the debt is unpaid and so we’re back to the taxpayer paying more.

And it’s worth noting that <50% go to university. So an increase in general taxes is also an increase in taxes on those who don’t benefit from a university education.

It’s a conundrum.

If we won’t pay more, then we need to redefine the product and make it a cheaper product.

Ideas that have been suggested on this thread include 2 year degrees, virtual degrees, hybrid of virtual and residential, moving over time to a more local/regional model so that funding goes on tuition and not accommodation. I may have missed some. All of these have their own disadvantages.

Personally, I don’t think the current system is sustainable - a system that relies on unpaid labour as has been described above is wrong. Equally a system where people don’t feel they are getting value for money is not right.

Radical change is needed. This endless tweaking and cutting of courses is just managed decline. Where is the leadership going to come from? There were rumours that Bridget Phillipson was going to get reshuffled out. Is there a radical, university-reforming politician waiting in the wings to take this on?

A lot of people with experience and knowledge of working at unis are getting understandably defensive when it is mooted it might not be value for money....when in reality the fees don't cover all the associated costs and the tutors and academics are working far longer, and many more hours than are "visible" to the parent or student.

But saying "well it should be 15k, so actually it's a bargain" isn't that much consolation. Its not as if 6k is the sort of loose change you could find behind the sofa!
Instead of comparing to other countries, it's simplistic and not entirely reasonable but many parents are comparing it to the UK when it was free, or 1k....or 3k.... It's a bit like if GPs surgeries started charging £150 per apt and hoping everyone would just shrug and be ok with that because that's more like what it cost...

but many parents are comparing it to the UK when it was free, or 1k....or 3k....

It's a bit like if GPs surgeries started charging £150 per apt and hoping everyone would just shrug and be ok with that because that's more like what it cost...

If the government just stopped funding the NHS what do you think would happen?

I have said its simplistic, I understand why fees were introduced...I'm just saying the comparison is there
...in the same way it would be if the government stopped funding the NHS and everyone had to pay. You don't think some people might struggle with the cost, or think "this used to be free" even if they were paying under the market rate

If we won’t pay more, then we need to redefine the product and make it a cheaper product.
Ideas that have been suggested on this thread include 2 year degrees, virtual degrees, hybrid of virtual and residential, moving over time to a more local/regional model so that funding goes on tuition and not accommodation. I may have missed some.

oh believe me the universities are going full tilt to make it a cheaper product though not with any of those ideas. The one you missed is the one they’re doing- cutting staff, reducing teaching time per module, reducing assignments, etc. generally diluting the experience

as a lecturer I’m getting sent on a session next week to be taught how to incorporate “peer marking” into my course. We are being told to stop/reduce having exams/assignments. Instead focus on in session student presentations and to save us marking it the whole cohort marks everyone.

I did a postgrad module years ago with this assessment strategy. It’s not exactly robust. We just gave everyone over 70%. We loved it. I can imagine with an undergrad cohort of 18yo who fall out with each other, etc it won’t be beyond the realm of impossibility that the cohort gives people they don’t like low marks. Never mind the possibility of racism and bias.

@Exhausteddog so what would you suggest?
Someone has to pay for it.

It is expensive but it's expensive to deliver even without the bells and whistles. It needs to be paid for from somewhere 🤷🏼‍♀️