What paths to High Paid careers

[MedSchoolRat]

DD is academic, ambitious, competitive & materialistic. She wants a list of options to well paid careers besides medicine.

I work in a Medical School & I worry she'll get too stressed out on the course. She agrees that she needs to consider other jobs, to make a good choice, excluding sports & performing arts too.

There are A Lot of well-paid lawyers on MN. I work with very well paid Professors. There's a list here but it doesn't even include the University Proffs, so I wondered who else was left out. Anyone else want to describe paths they have seen how people got into high paid jobs (> £75k/annum)? TIA.

It will be hard for her to succeed in such high pressure jobs without it being something she actually wants to do and has a passion for. What does she actually enjoy?

I think the problem with academia is that the starting salaries are a bit shit. Yes professors are paid a lot but I expect most academics these days spend YEARS on low paid, temporary contracts even after they complete their PhDs.

You think professors are well paid? Seriously? Do you really think this is true, outside medical schools?

To become an academic you need to get a top undergraduate degree, spend at least four years on postgraduate degrees (Masters and PhD), get several years work on temporary contracts moving around the country and often outside the country.

Then, if you have demonstrated your abilities to produce top research, obtain research grants, supervise PhD students and teach undergraduates you can compete for a lecturer job. You can anticipate working 50+ hours per week with no holidays to juggle your teaching, research and admin, all for less than £40k per year. You will be under continual pressure to get grants for which the success rate will be as low as 5 or 10%. You will be under continual pressure to get high grades for your teaching. You will have more admin year on year as cuts to university budgets get worse and worse.

If you are very successful in the sciences you may get to be a professor on a salary of around £70k by the time you are 40 but more likely you will still be a senior lecturer on around £50k at the age of 40. Many people drop out and don't get permanent lecturer jobs, many more don't progress and stay stuck at lower grades. Becoming a professor outside the sciences often takes even longer. Note that the average professor salary in the UK is around £70k, with professor salaries starting at £60k. Getting over £90k or so is pretty rare.

I would not recommend academia for a materialistic person. One could easily earn 5 or 10 times more working outside academia within my field.

Accountant, investment Banker, Management Consultant, Dentist.

Yes, academia is not for people who are in it for the money. You need to be passionate about your subject. My husband did a PhD and considered going down that route but he felt that the years working as a post doc for little money would be soul destroying.

BTW professors do appear in the linked list, at number 57 "Higher education teaching professionals", average salary £40k. The latter average is rather low as it includes support staff and those on zero hours contracts. If you doesn't become a professor until the age of 50 or so then indeed your career average salary is going to be far below £70k.

Depends where in the country you are.
I have lawyer friends in rural towns who will never make over £50k, and I have friends working part time in digital media in London who make £60k working 3 days a week.
But many of the jobs in London that are highly paid can only be done in London, so if she wants to live and work elsewhere, she needs to factor that in.

What are her interests? What areas does she enjoy? It is no good chasing after the salary of say, an investment banker, if numbers leave her cold and business and wearing suits just aren't her thing...

I'd say Finance is a reasonable choice. However, the work is stressful when training (and pay will be lowr) and it is also stressful once at the height of responsibility. You earn your money, it wont be handed to you on a plate.

The other thing is you can earn loads in London and current rents then eat the majority up so, materialistically, earning less in a cheaper location will still be the same - IYKWIM.

I love my job but I have met people who hate it with a passion and want to get out. So, she should think of where her passions lie (excluding the thought of £££) otherwise she could be finding herself retraining at the very time most people are reaching their earning peak.

STEM subjects at University lead to the best paid jobs, historically. One of the reasons women are often paid less is that they were traditionally steered away (or put off) these subjects.

I think its important to teach your children to work at what they are good at and enjoy. Choose the job/career first rather than the lifestyle.
It must be awful to have to go to a job you hate or just like everyday.
A calling or a talent you have will make you far happier.

Patent Attorney, if she's into science/engineering with a legal slant.

We talked about finance, city trader but I couldn't understand the career path. Is it a matter of having a degree from the 'right' university & going to the career fairs? That's how Venetia Thompson & Helena Morrissey seemed to get their feet in the door.

Thanks for replies. DD is good at lots of things, no narrow passion for any subject so she may as well think with dollar signs too. If money were the same regardless... I think she'd think towards science. Also loves history. And art. And sport. Not bad at music. So hard to choose. She'd prefer to suit up in perfect makeup & beautiful shoes every day rather than be a scruff bag like her mother.

I think she has a fierce intellectual curiosity & won't really need as much money as she thinks she'd want, hence why academia is a good fit, but I have been wrong about her before. Patent attorney I thought maybe it wasn't really as sociable a job as I see DD loving.

I know a Proff who has just been poached by a ruddy RG Uni of course for (we think) £130-£180k. His degrees are in economics (none of them Oxbridge either).

Retail strategy
Consultancy
Project management
Law-commercial
Banking
But...all will have high volumes of stress, you surely manage it better as you gather experience etc

Go for science, if she likes that. It's well paid and her passion will help her, even if it's a weak passion - it'll be a better than in a career like finance, if she has no passion at all for it, because it's very stressful and you need something other than your pay to keep you going.

Economics academics get paid "market rate" supplements so their salaries are exceptional, as are the salaries of medical academics (separate scale).

I don't believe any mathematician in the UK gets as much as £120k, not even those with the maths equivalent of Nobel Prizes. The going rate for world leading academics who could be poached by top international institutions is "only" £80-100k. Very few academics have salaries at the top end and very few of these are under 40.

As an academic the main ways to improve your salary are to quit academia/do consultancy work (if appropriate for your field) or to go into administration. Faculty deans and university senior leadership teams are paid higher salaries but again very few of them are younger than mid 40s.

I'd say law as a law degree can lead to other highly paid career paths (company secretaries can get paid a large amount in listed companies)

Or if she has a head for it, investment banking. Dull as fuck though, at least law has some interesting sides to it!

For most of the higher paid jobs you start with good exam results and a very good institution. So getting into the right university is a good starting point.
Then you need some work experience in your university holidays.
She should also make sure her accent passes the posh test and she dresses and acts like the people with whom she might want to work. Sorry to be so blatant about that but it is important as so many people have the stellar exam results, work experience and the good university. Make sure she also has the right hobbies to fit in with the people with whom she will be working too eg one of my children's work London/financial services related they love people who are into a team sport although they also asked her to play the cello on a work set of video clips so being an all rounder who cn talk to people helps as does staying slim and looking good and wearing the right clothes.

Also being stoic and keeping going no matter what, never being someone who is always late of off sicki, ability to cope with pressure no matter what and being fit is just as important as the academic side for these kinds of jobs. Some of their friends are in investment banking nad that kind of thing where I think recruitment is again from the better universities.

So both my girls in their 20s are either on or just under or just over £100k and are lawyers in an area related to financial services. Their graduate brother who is not materialistic is a happy postman at the moment (£20k).

Also professions vary within the profession as to the income level so be careful what you pick. Eg if someone came into law to act for impoverished criminals they might well not earn much.

One of mine also looked at advertising agencies which again recruit from the better universities at the usual milk round events. You can end up owning your own agency. I think one of our best paid (but sadly male) advertising men Sorrell is on £43m a year. Even Ernst & Young accountancy partners on £1m a year or their lawyer equivalents tend to earn less than clients who sell a business but that's riskier. Better at least to start with a profession or graduate experience in a good job and later branch out into setting up your own business.

Another thing she needs to do which my daughters have been very good at unlike many women is keeping pay at the forefront of you mind, making a regular case for more pay and pushing for it and letting people know you are good rather than sitting back like many women thinking they will be noticed for silent diligence or thinking £50k is high pay. Also don't be afraid to move jobs regularly for higher pay nad even countries. Women tend to follow male partners for work and destroy their careers. Men take risks and change jobs more often because they think they are brilliant.

My best friend has a chemistry degree and makes about £80k in management in a pharma company, up north.

DH (another chemistry grad) was making six figures in sales and now makes much more because we have set up our own company., (again up north).

Chartered Accountant - which I am can be completed without a degree. I did it that way, got a training contract after A levels (well, BTEC in my case). Worked and studied at the same time, qualified after four years, moved to a firm with partnership prospects. Became a partner in my mid-20s but that was in a small firm whi wanted me - I doubt it would happen in a big firm but a big firm would offer more opportunities.

Of course, many people do do degrees first. They do not have to be in finance - the best Accountants I know did geography, philosophy and physics. Thats three people not joint honours!

The advantage of doing an unrelated degree is it will give you more skills, allow you to study a passion (possibly do better?) and give you an escape pass if yiy decide Finance isn't for you.

For more up to date information look at the ICAEW website, or the careers sections of the websites of the top twenty accountancy firms.

Ugh I hate this sort of conversation.

Look, if she's clever attractive & materialistic, just advise her to marry a rich man. I really don't want to have to teach someone who's just driven by getting a high paid job.

Thing is, thirty years ago when I was a student, accountancy was the golden goose. People piled into it, pretty soon accountants were as cheap as chips.

Ditto a few years later with computer programming. I have mates who earned three times what I did when we were in our twenties, earning not much more today.

I remember when a law degree was considered a really good bet. But apparently provincial solicitors are pretty poorly paid nowadays.

Skills shortages come and go. I guess the options are to try to anticipate the curve.

Or simply go with your passion.

We have a friend who was brought up in poverty, he saved money from his grant to send home. He was driven to succeed by his background, he wanted to bring security to himself and his family. He studied and worked hard and has been a huge success academically and financially. I don't think it is always a bad thing to strive for a high paid job.

I've never had a passion. I can't being to understand people who have a passion.

Most of the professions are a better bet than other jobs and even were in the 1920s because it's harder to pass the exams so fewer people are competing and thus pay is higher. I don't agree accountancy is no longer worth doing.

"A report earlier this year by the High Pay Commission estimated that around 270 partners at leading UK accountancy firms are earning more than £1million a year. Senior partners at PwC, Deloitte and KPMG were paid £3.6million, £2.7million and £2.4million respectively last year"