What paths to High Paid careers

[MedSchoolRat]

DD is academic, ambitious, competitive & materialistic. She wants a list of options to well paid careers besides medicine.

I work in a Medical School & I worry she'll get too stressed out on the course. She agrees that she needs to consider other jobs, to make a good choice, excluding sports & performing arts too.

There are A Lot of well-paid lawyers on MN. I work with very well paid Professors. There's a list here but it doesn't even include the University Proffs, so I wondered who else was left out. Anyone else want to describe paths they have seen how people got into high paid jobs (> £75k/annum)? TIA.

RegularHiding - I see what you are trying to say, but a lot of people are motivated by money - sometimes money and status get mixed up as they are very linked, but if you are motivated by money, you won't be happy in a low paid job with a low standard of living, no matter how "socially worthy" or even how well respected your job is. People like this are miserable, and if the OP's DD knows what matters to her, then better to be honest and look for that rather than claim to be motivated by something more socially acceptable to say and be miserable.

The issue of whats a family friendly career is a bit of a mixed issue - few boys are told to consider that and if she's going ot be a serious high flyer, she might be happy to take a 6 month or less mat leave and have a nanny, or have her DH/P take over being the primary carer. Many men pick careers with long hours and just accept they wo'nt see much of their DCs, I think it's sad we think less of woman who make the same choice, although it could be that woman who are like this tend to marry men who are equally successful so work similar hours. Perhaps you should be telling your DD to "marry down" career wise so her DH is more likely to take over childcare...

Do something you like, though.

And it's not as if all jobs are horrible, dammit. Lots of jobs are rather interesting and demanding. Not all those jobs are incredibly well-paid (and I do take SheGot's point) but I know a lot of people who like their work and get paid a reasonable amount.

Admittedly I ended up as a freelance journalist, which is hardly the big time financially, but I do like what I do. It is not the shuddering horror of some previous jobs I've done. Shuddering horror is to be avoided IMO.

oh and "do what you love" assumes that noone loves making money. Lots of people do.

I agree that family friendliness shouldn't be a top priority at this stage.

The thing about money is that it is frightfully useful stuff but principally as a means to an end - an end, of course, that many people on this planet don't have enough of. Very few people just think "ooh my lovely money, let me count you, my pretties" in the manner of a Tolkienesque dragon. Most people want it for the stuff it can buy. Food. Gin. Gory novels. A roof over one's head. Prevention of destitution. That kind of thing.

Interesting thread. Yes you need a range of things to do well not just excellent exam results but being able to fit in with the people around you. one of my 20 something children who likes "Lean In" (the book) and is keen on earning a lot has specifically ensured she wears what the senior people wear, not what the new graduates who are not professional qualified wear for example. I am not saying clothes are the only things that matters but it does help in part.

Also someone mentioned accountants. Like lawyers those who earn the big money £100k - £2m a year aren't just good but they like the work and stick at it. A lot of people in all jobs don't stick around so they don't do well. I don't mean don't move jobs (a mistake women make is not taking the risk of new jobs with higher pay) but I do mean continuing to do what you do. I am in year 32 now of continuous working full time in law (no maternity breaks) adn I love it as much as when I adored my degree which I started when I was 17 in law. I am very very lucky. However one reason I have done fairly well is because I stick at it and I am always there and always show up (I had a week off this last 12 months and that's fine as my work is as pleasurable as my hobbies).

Someone mentioned music above - the father who said do maths not music was wise. I adore music, 4 grade 8s, sing every day, accompany the children on the piano but I am glad I kept it as a hobby. There is a choir of lawyers in London and orchestra people can join if they are into music. It is very hard to make a living at music although keep your day job and try it as obviously some manage it.

Also go with your strengths. Although I was quite good at maths at school, top set,top mark etc I was not so good at science and doing arts A levels was the right way for me to get into law. My teenage boys' Asian peers are all being pushed into STEM A levels at the moment at their private school,. One poor boy is not going to get A in A level maths, friend of my son and his parents want him to do maths A level. Don't go into those subjects for the sake of it if you'd get an A in history but a C or D in maths. you've got to be tactical about it unless you are someone who will get A* in everything.

Someone said people on high hourly rates don't spend all hours charging - obviously that is true to an extent. I work for myself and my hourly rate is £360. Of course half is stolen from me in pernicious taxes but that is a different story. Not every hour of the day is chargeable time (I am tryhing this having done one hour so far today only but then it';s only 9am and taken a call at 8 from a client which I suppose I ought to charge for although it wasn't very long).

It is very interesting seeing people against women earning a lot - it is as if they are on a different planet and I suppose it's good for my children because it means there is a cohort of able people out there who will not be competing with them as their parents say follow your heart and earn low sums, high pay is not for the likes of women in our family. Less competitionf or the rest of it but very sad. You can have a career you adore which earns you an awful lot - what is not to like about that?

I've encouraged my daughter and son to look at careers they think will interest them but I have also banged on about finanical independence.

I think that's really important, especially for women, who often end up stuffed financially when marriages end because their career choices meant they didn't earn as much as their husbands.

If you can find something you love that pays well, that's the holy grail I think. And I've been completely skint and now I'm not and I know which I prefer.

It's very English, this "oh the money isn't important" attitude.

I agree that earning good money (at the expense of happiness) shouldn't be the be all and end all but having enough money (not being rich, just having enough money) does make life a heck of a lot easier. In many many ways.

I agree that it's not just about qualifications, it's about how you communicate and present yourself and how professional your conduct is too. I think younger people often don't get that. (Why would they, if they haven't been out there in the world of work?)

Who's saying 'high pay is not for the likes of women'? I'm a lifelong card-carrying feminist - I think women can do any job that men can do. I also don't think that absolutely top whack pay is necessarily a paramount consideration for anyone. Male or female.

Draylon

Chemical Engineering - good starting salary and career path.

We talked about finance, city trader but I couldn't understand the career path

Typically, it is an economics degree or maths degree from a great university. Oxbridge is favoured, but one of the other top 5 or 10 would be do-able.
Then intern in your summer holidays (there are formal internship programmes you can apply to during the first year, or you can use any contacts you have to get an informal one. They are paid positions but will require her to work fairly long hours. The intake is usually pretty equally split between men and women).

During the 3rd year, she will need to apply to all the major banks for their graduate trainee scheme. One at a 'bulge bracket' bank would be the ideal - there are half a dozen of these in London.

The trainee scheme is three years and would cover a range of banking disciplines - M&A, debt, corporate finance, trading. The attrition rate is possibly more than you would expect, partly because some people find it just isn't for them, some can't hack the hours and work, and others find that they can apply for related jobs with 1 or 2 years of banking experience.

At the end of the 3 years, she would then either find a job in the bank in a field she enjoys/is good at, or apply to another company for a role in an area her bank couldn't offer her, or get out altogether.

Some people leave to go to Financial PR (very well paid, although not investment banking levels. You can expect to be on £100k by the time you are 30). Some people go into management consultancy (same pay levels as PR, with no upper limit). A few might go into financial journalism, but the pay is lousy.
Some leave to go and do an MBA or masters and then come back to a finance job in a related field.
The holy grail is to get a job in Private Equity or a Hedge Fund, but competition for this in immense.

Nobody in their right mind does Accountancy as a degree.

Much better to do a science degree and then become a good accountant later.

I do not earn much, but then I don't work much either.
Just enough to have three overseas holidays a year with my kids.

I have a similar DD. She is considering a career path similar to mine which I am happy about and which I think will suit her. The other DD is an entirely different proposition so I think it is horses for courses.

I am a retired chartered accountant. The things I miss most about working are designer suits, heels, glamorous travel and entertaining intellectual companionship at work. It paid so well I retired early to focus on other commitments. Also I did not think it possible to work enjoyably at less than FT 100% commitment at the top flight of the profession. If you are not prepared to outsource the rest of your life or compromise your career then this is a consideration.

I agree the non university route is perfectly valid and the big firms do recruit from school. However doing a University degree first is more fun and gives more options later on.

My degree is Law and Economics. It would also have given me entry to law, banking, management consultancy, civil service and numerous other paths. I have legal friends who are corporate lawyers, university professors, policy advisers, merchant bankers, and traditional law court lawyers, advocates and judges.

I have accountancy friends in chief executive as well as finance roles in fields ranging from investment banking to the charity sector. Training with a big audit firm gives access to almost all industries (even music) and there is plenty of opportunity to explore different options and develop specialisms as you find where your interests and talents are best suited.

I agree to earn the highest money and have the greatest career impact you have to be prepared to go to where the work is which is the major finance centres and the top jobs are more concentrated in these areas than they used to be. Plenty of opportunities to work internationally.

DH is an IT consultant. He also has had opportunities to work in a multitude of industry sectors and there are options which pay very well. His career is more flexible and as a lot of it can be done remotely it is easier to be well paid outside London. There is also more opportunity for home working etc. I think he would advise a Maths / Science degree rather than an IT degree as the entry route to give the best opportunity for career progression.

Talkin - you're right that nobody in their right mind does an accountancy degree ... Up to a point. I can see some merit in selling your soul to KPMG or PWC and getting them to pay your fees and pay you for working in the holidays and then give you a guaranteed job straight afterwards for a couple of years. Not huge amounts...but some. If a person really really wanted to be an ACA. They'd have to be amazingly good to overcome the hurdle of being so narrow later on in their career though - but on the other hand, they would not only have no debt, they'd have cash in hand. So, swings, roundabouts. You're wrong on your advice to do a science degree though. The best (and most successful) people in the profession often have humanities/social science (economics or business with a sensible spread of modules) degrees (or maybe maths but that's fairly rare at the top end, this is only partly because mathmos have other options, it's also because often they lack the other qualities to make the cut down the line - they get in the door but they don't always stay the pace).

UhtredOfBebbanburg interesting what you say about maths graduate and accountancy. I'm in software and one of the developers I had work with has a maths degree from Oxbridge, did training with one of the big 4. (PWC or KPMG). He left after a year or two in the program. Didn't like it at all and became a developer. And now he is a developer for another bank! So what you say about science people can't hack it at that. But I don't think it's the degree. It's usually a certain sort of people who are attracted to math, physics and computer science.

The best (and most successful) people in the profession often have humanities/social science (economics or business with a sensible spread of modules) degrees
IMHO its much too big a field to generalise like that
and the trends change over the decades

Maths : yes : often too narrow
but my BSc gave me the range of skills that I never had a problem getting into jobs, even though it was a drinking man's class

Thing is though, talkin you cooking do that these days.

I bet you entered the profession when the big names were recruiting massively ( and relatively in selectively ).

Then it was the big name firm that have you the edge not your degree. Lots did it that way on accounting, law and finance.

Not a car in hells chance these days.

Non selectively.

shegot
I actually went to join a firm 5 years after leaving Uni
But yes, folks who did as little work as I did are street sweepers nowadays.
I did not join the big firm BTW but found a back door route into a firm that is now part of BDO
and then specialised into my little niche over the last 18 years

never been a great one for fitting into boxes

HeadDreamer - I didn't say that they can't hack it, I said that many don't stay the pace which is a different thing altogether! I myself read maths at Oxbridge and I know other very successful mathmos in the profession but I have also known many who lacked the communication skills to find staying in practice their best bet. They still ae accountants because they have the qualification but they have moved on (possibly to better things, possibly not) in terms of what they actually do. I can't be too specific but there is a concern that the graduates coming into the profession now are often too narrow partly (but not entirely) because of the 'STEM or DEATH' messsage coming from the schools (directed at the brightest kids anyway, and intiating from government policy). One way which this is being addressed is through encouraging universities which run accounting and business and economics degrees and tyically have good track records with the profession to add modules to their degrees that will develop the skills that are needed in addition to being 'good at maths'. These include, but are not limited to, communication skills. Manchester business school has added a philosophy module to its accountancy degreees (and possibly to other degrees as well), maybe not as a direct response to the mutterings in the profession but certainly this direction matches the mood music.

Talkin - IMHO its much too big a field to generalise like that nah I'm involved (at international level not just national) in this issue and we can make some generalisations. There's a lot of concern about attracting people with the skills that are needed into the profession...

Mind you I'm not saying OP's daughter should consider it. If money is her prime motivator there's more money in law.

Incidentally my advice wasn't in the context of 'getting into jobs' - the OP was talking about her DD wanting to be a top salaried high flier.

There is however a LOT to be said for finding your niche as you go along. Especially since many of the things that will be open to our kids either as careers or as niches within professions don't exist yet.

If I was building teams to help me corner the market in aspects relating to integrated reporting, for example, I'd be looking at people with quite diverse skill sets/experience/knowledge (while still retaining the sine qua non of maths and communication proficiency). And I might not even be requiring them to take accountancy exams (many of the people who work very lucratively for the biggest firms are not in fact qualified accountants).

This has gone really off topic, so sorry OP. But If I had to suggest just one dehree that might lead somewhere lucrative in the future rather than that has traditionally done so in the past I might choose geography. If that's any help.

DS is currently reading geography so I am quite intrigued. (DS is planning to join our family business so not over worried about a career path as such).