Which fourth A-level is better alongside Physics, Maths and Further Maths? Or are chemistry/economics equally good choices?

[Baddogs]

DS is trying to decide on his 4th a level.
He knows he wants to do Physics, Maths and Further Maths, but can't decide whether to do economics or chemistry as the 4th.
He knows he wants to do physics at University and is predicted very high grades so has his eye on some very competitive university courses but I am not sure whether there's a "better".option to take for the 4th a level or whether both are equally good options?

(I studied law so feel a bit clueless guiding him in science choices!)

DD did Chemistry, Maths and FM. She did Business as her fourth. She’s now doing NatSci.

Does he need to do 4 A levels? Is it policy at his school? I can’t see any advantage tbh.

Chemistry is a brilliant A-level, but very hard. How about something different like a language? Is the 4th in case further maths doesn't work out? Assume future plan is Engineering/ maths?

The advantage is if you miss your grade in one of the other 3 or want to drop one - you still have 3 to fall back on

Why do four? Even the top unis don’t want this. I would worry it would drag their grades down for no reason. If they have a job / learn to drive / social life time will be pushed.

For all those asking - why four A levels - further maths is often done as a 4th A level because it relates so closely to maths and it is so narrow to study only maths + further maths + physics.

what subject does he enjoy most? the final A level should be whichever is most motivating and fun. Economics would involve more essay writing, but teaches lots of ideas that are relevant to everyday life / government / politics. Chemistry has much more lab work but can be fun with a good teacher.

Surely you’re more likely to miss a grade if you give yourself a whole extra subject to study for!

I think he would do more than four if he could! He loves learning

He wants to study Physics at university

I don't think he will be deterred by the subject being hard. He's finding GCSES too easy really

Chemistry has more overlap with Physics so would support his degree.

However it depends whether he wants a science based career… if he’s not sure then Economics would show more breadth.

He's pretty focussed on a science based career, but I think as he's started to learn about the world he can also see how much economics underpins things . He's quite broadly interested in the world generally and loves history and geography too

But he is very set on physics at University (and reads a lot about it for fun at home, it's his real passion) so if one subject would help more /be looked on most favourably when applying he would lean towards that

It’s always a good idea to start 4 if one is FM in case the ‘step up’ turns out to be a problem. Even though doesn’t sound as though it will be an issue for your DS, for an able student the breadth is valuable. Sometimes people do seem to forget the purpose of A levels is to learn, not merely to get enough bits of paper to proceed to uni!
I’m a chemist; it’s not harder vs other subjects if you’re that way inclined - I’d have found a language much more difficult! As for which out of chem and economics is ‘better’ - well, perhaps that depends on whether he’s more likely to want to eventually be a research scientist or more industry/managerial.

It’s perhaps easier to learn a fair bit about economics in broad terms by yourself than it is to pick up a useful amount of chemistry.

I don’t think it will matter too much for applying for physics - my son was applying for engineering and they really only wanted maths, physics and the more maths the better. He took history for a 4th and it was great to have something a bit different during the week, plus he wanted to carry on studying it for his own enjoyment. He had a clutch of v good offers.

If your son might be interested in applying to Cambridge for physics, it would be best to take chemistry to give a broader base for natural sciences, which is what the physicists would apply for. I think, anyway.

He should take the one that interests him most, and ideally the one he’d be most likely to do well in, though that could be hard to identify. Can he do taster sessions of economics, talk to the tutors at college / sixth form open days etc?

Someone I know has just finished a physics masters at Oxford, and his fourth choice was French.

Definitely whichever interests him most, unless he’s likely to get a better grade in one than the other. They’re very different subjects but I do understand that he is attracted by both of them. However, if there’s nothing else separating them, Chemistry is a better fit; DS is doing engineering but the chemistry has been useful for materials elements.

If your son might be interested in applying to Cambridge for physics, it would be best to take chemistry to give a broader base for natural sciences, which is what the physicists would apply for. I think, anyway.

Physical NatSci will accept Maths, Physics, Further Maths. However, that said, someone interested in the ‘broader’ science pathway offered by NatSci may well also be interested in the breadth offered by an extra Science A level.

Do Chemistry if he is, fundamentally, interested in science. On the other hand, Economics opens up a different focus and type of study - and however fixed a child is at 16, ideas can change.

Chemistry over economics.

Hes already got his eye on Oxford over Cambridge as he is very much just excited to get his teeth into degree level physics
(He's got other universities on the list too but has said his preference is Oxford over Cambridge for this reason)

That makes sense.

I know someone at Oxford studying MFL who did photography as a 4th A-level and when they missed their required grade in one of their main 3 subjects, that A* in photography is what got them over the line.

By way of context, last summer around 2900 18 years sat FM, Physics and Chemistry (with many, but not all, taking Maths in the same sitting as opposed to a year earlier). By contrast, around 900 sat FM, Physics and Economics.

Particularly if Economics is not being studied at GCSE, it is worth your son researching what is actually studied in A level Economics and how it is assessed. Buying a study guide and downloading past papers can be helpful.

OP - My grandfather was a Professor of Physics and he definitely would have picked Chemistry. His breadth of knowledge of everything STEM was unbelievable and for someone who understand everything - sciences are not difficult and are all interlinked.

Economics has extremely high grade boundaries. A 4th A level is no longer required with Further Maths apparently (I was also a little surprised). 4 A levels are challenging. Chemistry goes well. To be honest, he could choose almost anything as the fourth (but being careful about workload and other considerations!).

I'd agree with this. He will find poss easier to remain in the sciences rather than trying to branch into a topic that may be more essay based?