Which fourth A-level is better alongside Physics, Maths and Further Maths? Or are chemistry/economics equally good choices?

[Baddogs]

DS is trying to decide on his 4th a level.
He knows he wants to do Physics, Maths and Further Maths, but can't decide whether to do economics or chemistry as the 4th.
He knows he wants to do physics at University and is predicted very high grades so has his eye on some very competitive university courses but I am not sure whether there's a "better".option to take for the 4th a level or whether both are equally good options?

(I studied law so feel a bit clueless guiding him in science choices!)

Ok, DSs FM class has one kid not doing physics.

The rest are, as a 4th A level (FM can only be taken as a 4th) taking:
Computer science (by far the most popular)
Chemistry
Economics
French
DT

In case that gives any ideas!

I did Physics Maths Further Maths & Chemistry and went on to do Physics at Oxbridge so I am very much similar to your DS.

I utterly loathed Chemistry A-Level. It was a big mistake to start it imo.

My advice to your DS is go for Economics, that will be much more interesting.

There are supportive overlaps between Maths, FM and Physics to the extent that they probably don't feel like the load of three A levels to a mathematically able student.

More generally, it is possible to do four A levels alongside a job, social life, driving lessons etc. It just requires good time management - a useful skill to perfect in any event.

The interconnection between Physics and Chemistry has always been there but, arguably, will become even more relevant with the current direction of scientific innovation.

Ds is the same with four, three the same as listed. Toss up between Computer Science and Chemistry.

He’s switched to the latter, thinks it might be more challenging and in line with what he wants.

Can you tell me more about your last sentence?
I'm definitely not clued up about science stuff!

(I agree though that I am confident he can manage the workload and still have a life outside of schoolwork)

Older Ds did four with same but CS and it was fine. There’s a lot of overlap and if maths is someone a student is naturally good at it’s not that high on workload.

My son did those 3 A-levels plus Economics. He went on to do Physics at univ. but really enjoyed the Economics - he found it quite easy and an interesting subject - gave a nice balance I think.

Chemistry is considered hard even for those who got high 9s at GCSE. Ds1 did maths, fm, physics and computer science but did computer science at GCSE and went on to do it at uni. Ds2 did maths, fm, computer science and economics and is now at uni doing econ. They both got mostly 9s at GCSE. This foundational knowledge makes the A level subjects easier than someone coming in on a 6 which was the minimum for both maths and science at their sixth form.

Computer science is quite boring at both GCSE and A level according to both my children but it is methodical and maths based and they enjoyed that aspect. Econ is an essay subject and sometimes marking is open to interpretation, one teacher says it is this mark, another teacher says it is this. Ds found this subjective marking frustrating being maths black and white person.

Fm is a sort of extension of maths which is why it is often a 4th A level. Some universities would not consider 3 A levels in which 2 are maths and fm to demonstrate breadth and because he is aiming for Oxford et al that needs to be considered.

As for workload, contact hours for Ds1 was 5 hours per subject and he still had 5 hours of free periods a week, plus an assembly, tutor time and an enrichment afternoon. Most work was completed in their free periods as he and his mates were all aiming for top 10 universities so came out of class and into the studying section. There is plenty of time for an organised and dedicated student to complete work, have hobbies and a part time job.

This is also about resilience and whether if a student finds themselves struggling they would reach out to the teacher, go back over work they found challenging to make sure they nailed it etc. Some children who have found school work easy struggle when they have to work at it.

DD did chem, she went on to do engineering.

I think Economics would be good if he wants to go on to data science or MORSE.

Geology would help open up geophysics as a career, which can include (exo)planets, climate physics and seismology

My DD will be taking Maths, Physics, computer science and French. But she wants to study CS at uni.

I'm not worried whether he will manage 4, he's getting 9s now (year 10) and not feeling stretched to get them

It's really just having a bit more info to help as he weighs up what subject to pick as his fourth

I’d be interested to know what @PerpetualOptimistwas thinking of too, but for sure there is a lot of exciting interdisciplinary work at the moment in the area of new materials (eg ‘high temperature’ superconductors, battery technology…) and also in the very broad area of biophysics and ‘structural biology’. That might sound like you’d want to do biology but I think a sound footing in chemistry would be more relevant.

Re the workload of 4 A levels - if they’re aiming for a top STEM uni then they’ll need to be developing their time management and study skills anyway. It really doesn’t sound like it will be a problem for your DS, OP.

@Baddogs it was mainly to address the better to get 3 A stars than 4 As type conversation from others not really aimed at your son. It does all depend on the child. As your son is only in year 10 then he has time to look into the A level subjects he might take. There are a lot of students who posted on Youtube about chemistry and other subjects at A level, might be worth looking into.

Mine found 4 A levels relatively easy as did their friends, all of whom went onto RG or other high ranking unis. Both mine needed maths/fm for their subjects at uni and they are very maths brained.

chemistry

I did those plus economics. In my field (finance) the economics is so useful.

Understood and thank you. That's a good tip about you tube videos ! I want it to be his choice but I also want to make sure I can give some informed guidance

Thanks! That's very interesting

I had in mind the areas you flagged @ErrolTheDragon and better articulated than I would have done!

If he has to do four he guided by what we're his top GCSEs and which was his favourite subject. He'll never go wrong.

Both are good so he should do whichever he enjoys most.

In my role I look at a lot of CVs and on balance I’d have a slight bias towards economics as it shows an interest / engagement with the human world (terrible choice of words - hope you understand my meaning). It’s a good compliment to maths but also has elements of history and politics overlap.

Another factor that could help him choose is which A level teacher he’ll like more.

But would they have missed their grade requirements if they had focused on 3 A levels? We’ll never know but having 25% less work surely would have made a difference!

ds has studied maths, further maths physics and Welsh bacc. Welsh bacc was all done by February half term in year 13 so no distraction at all from A level revision. That seems a good compromise.

That's true. That would have been a factor when I was choosing but we are in an area where they move to very big colleges for 6th form. There are a couple of very high performing colleges but all very big so no guarantee which teacher you will get

For those saying why do 4, it was a few years ago when I did my A Levels, but doing 3 was still typical - I did 5 AS Levels and 4 A Levels + General Studies. And one of those was a GCSE and A Level in a new language in two years.

I managed learning to drive, a part time job and an incredible social life too.

I thrive when I am so busy that every minute has to be accounted for (and now work in a high pressure job because I do not perform at all where there is plenty of time and no deadlines), so for some students filling up with more A Levels is the right answer (I got 4As and a B in the day before AStars).