Westminstenders: Christmas Cold, Campaigning, Canvassing and Cancelled Carols

[RedToothBrush]

It looks like a December General Election is on.

The EU have officially extended A50 until 31st January. We have to name an EU Commissioner though.

All that seems left to do is decide between the 9th and 12th December.

The difference between the two is about whether there is any possibility that the WAB can be passed before Parliament dissolves.

A pre-brexit GE is thought to favour the LDs at the expense of Labour and the Conservatives. What the Brexit Party decide to do and where they decide to stand will also be crucial.

Those who are rabidly anti Tory need to stop aiming their vitriol at the Tories and focus on making the alternative viable otherwise it is only going to hand the Tories the GE IMO

Remain lost the referendum because they focused on pointing out the negatives of leaving instead of the positives of staying

Unless Labour come up with positive reasons to vote for them as opposed to it just being ‘because it’s not the Tories’ they are going to be wiped out

Too many people support what BJ is doing and are indifferent about Labour because they have no clear direction

As I’ve said countless times, it’s too late for blame, we need positive actions now

About half past seven, dd, Dh and I were eating dinner. Doorbell rings.

"That'll be a canvasser!" I declare. Cue chorus of "I'm not going!" "Nor am I" "theyre quick off the mark!" Etc.

Upshot being we couldn't face whoever might be on the doorstep.

It was Labour tonight....

They'll all be fighting to get on those late night political sofas. I think Ken Clarke's a suede shoe-in

Don't tell me what to do Bear

Don't tell me what to do Bear

This just proves my fucking point on this thread - you will happily be ‘told’ what to do by RTB or BCF or any of your other clique but if I make a point, which I clearly said was ‘IMO’ I get shit like this

Crack on an blame the Tories for everything whilst accepting Labour are useless and see where that gets you

The Tory Parliamentary party after the GE will have a very high Stupid Evil Bastard quotient*.

Very high as in 100%.

I have to admit that I think BearBehind is absolutely right here

you have to give people something to aim FOR

that was the genius of Cummings with Take BACK Control
it was meaningless but made people feel good

if Labour and the smaller parties cannot give POSITIVE reasons to vote for them
Loathe Boris will just go down as more project fear

The non Tory Parties need to show positively and clearly

• being in the EU protects employment rights
• being in the EU protects environmental protection
• being in the EU makes the rich be transparent about their wealth

and then

• THe Tories plan to sell the NHS for a song to get a trade deal with Trump
• a non EU trade deal with India requires 1,000,000 work visas a year for brown people

etc etc

@Bearbehind I think you red and BCF respectfully explains why they disagree , to agressively telling people that they are wrong - and that their opinion is not valid.

There is a world of difference between those two approaches.

It gets v wearing. I sometimes agree with your points - but have now got to the point I don't read your posts - because they feel haranguing.

.... and in saying that - complete expect you to harangue me😂, but hey be rest asserted I won't bother reading them, so maybe direct your energy elsewhere?

I have to admit that I think BearBehind is absolutely right here

Fuck me - despite it being begrudging - I’ll take that! 😂

to agressively telling people that they are wrong - and that their opinion is not valid.

Please point to a post where I have done that

I just don’t automatically agree with everything that’s said - there is a difference

Twitter bans all political advertising worldwide:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50243306

Which may knock a hole in someone's electoral strategy.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50239261

Are we reaching peak 'woke'? Barack Obama calling out the Democratic party for purity policing. I would like to see similar here. The 'big church' parties that developed as a result of the FPTP-driven two party system were good for getting people to rub along together (within those parties at least ...).

I agree with Bear here as well about the anti-Brexit parties needing positive messaging. The poster in question can be pretty abrasive at times, and it does get irritating when they're repetitively driving home their points, but that doesn't mean they don't have interesting contributions to make to this thread.

and it does get irritating when they're repetitively driving home their points

Point taken 😂

Bearbehind
In case you were worrying, Bozo is an utter shit and his ditch is on the current cover of Private Eye
BUT
Elections are won by pulling people in,
not pushing them away

In case you were worrying, Bozo is an utter shit

I don’t disagree

Elections are won by pulling people in, not pushing them away

That’s exactly my point

Why should those who are anti-Tory, listen to Tories constantly lecturing them how to defeat Tories ?

• which appears to be by becoming slightly less unpleasant Tories.

If our resident Tories are wondering why we aren't grateful for their pearls of wisdom:
An occasional suggestion politely put would have been received politely by most
Occasional venting, ditto

However, this constant lecturing - and then whingeing when we aren't properly appreciative gets you nowhere
Also these baffling claims that we somehow don't realise we aren't a typical c/s of voters
The whole of MN is far more leftwing than average - although we are one of the less leftwing areas

Why the lecturing on what Corbyn or centrist should do, grates so much:

We can't forget that this whole disaster was caused by your fucking Tory PM calling a totally irresponsible referendum to settel a Tory party squabble
I can't think of any PM in our history who has caused such a national catastrophe for purely internal party reasons

So a bit of tact & diplomacy would be welcome, instead of constant fucking lectures about how to rescue the country from the fucking disaster the Tories have created.

btw, If I were paranoid, I might suspect Bear of being a very clever Momentum troll .....

because after having to so often defend Corbyn from things which are not his fault, or not within his power to change,
I found myself becoming more sympathetic to him than I ever imagined !

So my opinions have has changed somewhat with all these Tory interventions, but maybe not in the way intended.

'Not being the Tories' is a very positive message for me personally because they have become so toxic. And Labour are promoting a positive 'offer' on all the issues which most concern people and giving them hope for the future.

I'm pretty sure they don't need any assistance from negative angry pp like Bear

Point taken

It is probably frustrating because it does come across from some posters that they don't listen to you - but it's kind of actually the same as what you're talking about with needing positive messaging for the election. It's also evoking the backlash effect in the posters you're disagreeing with.

Someone upthread, forget who, had some excellent advice on reaching out to Leavers who might be convincable (is that even a word?). Listening and positive vibes seem to work.

positive vibes god I sound like an ageing hippy ...

So a bit of tact & diplomacy would be welcome

OMFG - you really are lost in your own little world aren’t you?

I’ll leave you to your echo chamber where you just moan about the Tories and don’t achieve anything

You think Leavers are a cult - they’ve got nothing on some of you

Am out of UK at the moment, but just dropping by to see if it is correct that Ken Clarke was largely ignored by the Tory Party on his last day in office after umpteen years?

Been catching snippets, but am not fully up to date on this. If true, well there you have it, disgusting and shows their true colours.

I wish I had an email address for KC, to pass on my best wishes on his retirement. Despite the fact that he is a Tory, he was one of the good ones.

I've read this and previous threads and come to a conclusion.

I can't canvas or distribute leaflets because I can't walk more than a couple hundred yards at a time (didn't stop me marching a fortnight ago, but slowly, in short bursts and then a rest, and only for a couple of hours before I had to peel off) so I wouldn't be a lot of use for campaigning.

But I can by God drive a car, and I have a car, and I can volunteer to drive people to the polls on 12th December -- and I am going to.

Once it becomes a bit clearer who might possibly knock the local Tory MP off his seat, I'll be getting in touch with them and offering my services. Even if I only get a dozen people to the polls, if that is twelve more votes in the right direction it's worth it. For once, worrying about the environment and not using the car too much can take second place.

I have taken note of what some posters say, with whom I vigorously disagree,
Poster00 far to my left and like Louise, a Leaver

They tell us their motivations, what they want and what they are going to do

They have made me think again, look for more source information elsewhere, question my own views, even occasionally modify them

But Bear You never say anything useful or informative, so I've stopped taking much notice of what you say

Your posts are all about how stupid we are, how exasperated you are with us, how offended you are and that we

• and Corbyn & LDems & Remain & whoever .. - aren't doing what we ought to, whatever that is

Why don't you tell us what YOU are going to do, to bring about whatever it is you want

This just proves my fucking point

Sounds pretty aggressive to me.