The Wonderful Thing About Brexits, Is Brexits Are Wonderful Things

[CatherineTheLate]

The whole point of Brexit is that we should trade with a group of countries with no political interference from either side so that no-one should interfere in a country's own affairs. The trade agreement should be limited to the countries involved and not affect the way any of the parties trades with other countries.

Is that outlandish? It's the way that most countries deal with each other, I think that a sensible person would say, "No." However, many Remainers cannot imagine that they should let it happen without claiming that their whole lives and the lives of their children have been ruined forever and trying to subvert it. They should ask themselves, "Why?"

To OP

*They should ask themselves, "Why?"

I don't think those who support remain will reply. Even if they do it will be along the lines of "Brexit is certain to destroy the UK". I have asked several times how can anyone predict the future with certainty, but still await a reply.

Some think the EU is a cartel that protects profits of those in the EU by denying cheaper alternatives to be sourced from outside EU controls. UK's departure from EU may expose the cartel and may prompt other countries to leave.

A large about of our trade is done with the EU.
I like the EU. I like my European neighbours, I like being part of the European community. I love my country and I want it to be strong standing WITH other countries. I like that the EU has had such a positive impact on workers rights in the UK, on food safety and standards. I want to remain part of that community. I do not want to reject and anger that community not because I am afraid of them but because I like them. I want my children to be part of that community and to be able to travel freely in it.
I want refugees to be welcome in our country (and FGS please make sure you understand the difference between refugees and immigrants as some of my brexiteer friends do NOT).
I do not believe the EU interferes with our affairs. I believe that being a part of a community means adopting some of their values, it means that while they have some say on what goes on in my country, I have some some in theirs, all in the name of improving all countries. Working together, being stronger ^together’.
I think it is obtuse to suggest that things won’t be a lot worse certainly for many years once we turn our backs on the EU. We’ll be coming to the table looking for deals when we have no representation any more on the management team so to speak. Not only that but we’ve recently told the management team to comprehensively fuck off. So no, I don’t think Brexit is a wonderful thing. I only have to look at the sort of people who think it is (Widdicombe, Farage etc) to know that I am right.

There’s a saying, not everyone who wants Brexit is a racist. But every racist wants Brexit. Sadly, I think this is true. The jingoistic, nationalistic shite being spouted, the attitude towards immigration and workers from overseas being in the UK has been an utter disgrace.

So NO, I do not think Brexit is a good thing, it is damaging and divisive.

So there are 17.4 Million racists in the UK? That's about 25% of the population.

Learn to read, @LifeContinues, they specifically didn't say that.

Predict the future-
we cannot negotiate trade deals until we have left the Eu. Fact
Trade deals take years to negotiate. Fact
The shower of shit government and opposition couldn't negotiate out of a wet paper bag. Fact IMO
In the meantime, we operate on WTO rules and regs. Fact
WTO rules and regs are the worst deal on the table, which is why trade deals are done - most expensive, lowest safety standards etc. Fact
Prices rise, safety standards decrease, families suffer, poverty increases. Fact

In the years, Gov will take to negotiate trade deals, industries will move out of the UK as they can get their products to their EU customers quicker if they are located in the EU. Industries gone, jobs lost. Jobs go, skills go and we end up with a less skilled workforce - not exactly attractive to businesses to locate back to UK and build high quality products.
Jobs lost means increase in benefits being claimed. Most likely result in increase in taxes longer term to pay for this. So less money in people's pockets and increased prices.

That's the future.

But every racist wants Brexit. Sadly, I think that's true

Sounds very like specific to me

There’s a saying, not everyone who wants Brexit is a racist. But every racist wants Brexit.

Whole quote for the hard of thinking.

That's the future

So bet on it. Easy money if you are certain.

But trade agreements do interfere politically. Eg the US might give us a good trade deal only if we open up the nhs to US drug and insurance companies. Another country might say that we can export our widgets there but only if we lower our safety standards on cars that we import from there. Another might say we can that we can sell cheddar cheese there but only if we accept their hormone treated meat. This is how trade deals work.

Alan sugar who made racist remarks is a remainer

@LifeContinues

Please explain how on earth the statement “There’s a saying, not everyone who wants Brexit is a racist. But every racist wants Brexit“ is saying everyone who wants Brexit is a racist?

To Eurochick

Different standards are found throughout the World are some are more rigid than others. However, it can’t be concluded that the most rigid standards are the only ones that can be considered safe.

Some might say that EU has raised the bar on standards, not because others are dangerous, but to protect their cartel and deny cheaper alternatives from being sourced elsewhere. Tim Martin of weatherspoons has made that comment several times. Jacob Rees Mogg has commented that the cost of; footwear, food and clothing would go down which would benefit the most vulnerable in the UK

Oaken, LifeContinues is a goady fucker, currently goady fuckering on most of the active Brexit threads, and is either (a) hard of understanding or (b) being deliberately obtuse. Personally, I wouldn't engage.

So bet on it. Easy money if you are certain if that is directed to me - Is that the best you can come up with? No counter arguments? No directing me towards the Daily Fail articles? Just put a bet on and get easy money - maybe I will. I can donate my winnings to my local food bank.

There’s 10 racists in a room. The likelihood is they all voted for Brexit.

There’s 10 people in a room, 9 of whom are not racist. 1 of them is racist, let’s call him Tommy. Some of the 9 will have voted for Brexit some will be remainers but you can bet Tommy will have voted for Brexit.

Nigel Farage specifically appealed who people who have an issue with people of other races working in this country during the run up to the election. He implied that other countries are taking our money (the side of a bus stuff).

He forgot to mention how much money we get from the EU in terms of subsidies, he forget to mention the other benefits (trade, freedom movement, a higher standard of workers rights etc). Unfortunately at that time the remain campaign could’t find its arse with both hands so no-one was properly refuting his lies. No-one was properly explaining benefits of EU membership.

Whether I was a remainer or a leaver, the way that Brexit has divided this country, the way it has highlighted our political ineptitude, I can’t believe that is a good thing. I know both remainers and leavers who are shaking their heads in despair at the whole situation.

No counter arguments?

My argument is that vote leave must have been based on intangible benefits. The guaranteed Brexit flushes the UK down the drain has been argued for 3 years, but does not seem to have made any difference.

Ps primary school explanation was for lifecontinues but I take TwoFingersToEverything’s post on board. Will ignore from now on.

The whole point of Brexit is that we should trade with a group of countries with no political interference from either side so that no-one should interfere in a country's own affairs. The trade agreement should be limited to the countries involved and not affect the way any of the parties trades with other countries.

That's not how free trade agreements work though.

All free trade agreements (even membership of the WTO!) involve a partial loss of agency, because both sides have to give something up in order to gain something. That's why FTAs have to be negotiated - because both sides have to agree what they are going to give up, and what they will gain in return. Where more than one country is involved, for eg NAFTA or EFTA or CPTPP, then that trade agreement limits how all the countries in that block trade with all the other countries outside that block.

If you want "frictionless" trade, rather than just preferential trading terms, you have to go further than this, because to remove border checks requires harmonisation of standards AND tariffs, which requires a greater degree of political cooperation.

This is just more Brexiter bollocks from someone who has literally zero idea about what trade agreements do nor what trade offs are required. It's like the last three years never happened.

But Brexit will affect everything in such a fundamental way and I really don't like the way the country feels right now.
For instance what a out medical care and insurance when in the EU? Not to mention visas? For any job where travel is a critical component it adds to the beurocracy and admin we have to do. No good cutting red tape if it means the individual has to do everything. This is particularly true if you are over 75 and going to conferences - not unusual in my field since I can name at least 3 people who are my collaborators to whom this applies.

Plus I am unclear about how Brexit will aid research and collaboration between the EU and non EU counties? We already have such initiatives and Brexit can only hinder these.

I have to admit that I have no idea what point you are trying to make, you are just counteracting your own arguments.

Vote leave was based on well documented lies. Only the stubborn would continue to believe those lies. The people who were so vocal about it in the first place that they have dug a hole so deep that they cant climb out of it without losing face and unfortunately losing face is more important to them than what the future holds.

Brexit has not actually happened yet, what difference are you expecting to see right now?

and unfortunately losing face is more important to them than what the future holds

Sums up MPs and many people I know perfectly. Some would go to the electric chair rather than admit they made a mistake

Mistigri - fantastic post

As someone who had worked in the field of international finance, one of my reasons for voting remain is that being in the EU gave us much stronger negotiating power because:

1. We had a large area to trade in where we don't have any tariffs and embargoes. Therefore we can get most of our imports from within this area and are not as reliant on making deals with other places. This hugely increases our negotiating power as other countries have to make themselves as attractive as our current EU deal for similar goods.
2. We can get a much better trade deal as the EU because we are much more larger as the EU than just the UK. We think we are very important but we're actually six down on the list of wealthy countries. With the EU we are number one.

1. There is no way we are ever going to get as good a trade deal with the EU as we have now. All of the other countries are waiting for this to happen as that will massively reduce our negotiating power. Because if we have lots of tariffs and embargoes with the EU, we have to go somewhere else and desperation is never good for negotiation.

I’ve yet to understand or hear one positive thing about Brexit. I’d like to be enlightened. Mostly it’s my father-in-law banging on about how it’s going to go back to being like ‘the good old days’. By that I conclude we will all be eating spam and having electricity cuts. If some kind Brexiteer can be inform me about the potential positives, that would be great because at the moment it feels like the whole country has gone to shit and we are the laughing stock Europe. The whole concept was built on lies and deceit and racism as far as I can make out but happy to hear differently.

Thank you grapeyes.

And yet what I wrote is really FTA 101. I find it astonishing that after three years there are still people who care about Brexit who haven't made the smallest effort to understand basic facts about trade.