Aibu to despair

[DorothyL]

Talking to some people tonight who are fluent in European languages, widely travelled, worldliwise -

and they said Barnier's stubbornness and the EU's tone is ruining everything.

Ffs

I give up

I'm just shooting the breeze bear. Was leaving you to do the weighing up for me - against my principles to do the day job for free.

At least I'm not asking anyone to crowdfund a bunch a spurious court cases.

I just googled that claim about parallel Italian currency. Most stories were from 2017 - there was one from January - and nothing beyond the recent election...

Plus five star may be populist and anti establishment - but they are not actually anti EU. That is a line that the British press is pushing in order to fool brexiteers into thinking the EU really is collapsing and they are vindicated for their colossal stupidity. But I have already written about he problems with the British press...

Plus 'parallel currency' is that like ' a customs union' but not 'the customs union'? utterly pointless, difficult to set up, impossible to diverge - a complete none starter that only the terminally hard of thinking would ever accept.
Yeah - I'm sure Italy are just racing headlong into that ...

seriously howabout I’m horrified that, given your lack of analytical thinking, you’re a lawyer.

A wee bit bored on t'internet food for thought.

www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Business_1/Whoever-governs-Italy-will-destroy-the-euro-from-within_printer.shtml

You can be anything you like on here.

As my DH would say; and I’m an astronaut.

OP, ffs indeed. YANBU.

Indeed Talkto and that is why I always implore others to do their own research instead of demanding answers from anonymous ANothers.

You have heard Sir Keir drone on ad infinitum devoid of all rational input for hours though bear?

howabout

A) Kier Starmer is in opposition so it’s pretty much his job to drone on

b) what he says is actually based in reality, unlike anything I’ve seen you say lately.

Seriously when are you all going to wake up to the realities here?

If Brexit is a success other EU Countries will folllow.

Until this debacle we were the fifth wealthiest country in the world.

As a result of our decision we are now on a descent.

Does being a success mean descending to seventh place, eight, ninth.. twelfth?

Just a simple point about measuring success that only struck me this week (and already posted on other threads).

What ranking counts as a success? Apart from the one we threw away.

But Bear - anything ‘pro remain’ is a fact to you, & anything ‘pro leave’ is fantasy.
That’s how fanatics work.
You won’t be happy until,
‘Thou shalt not leave the EU’ is etched in as the 11th commandment.

I did my own research howabout - I googled the author of your 'food for thought'

He is a long time opponent of austerity policies in southern Europe - and a critic of monetary Union... but of course he has no dog in this fight pretending that Italy will cause the Euro to fail ...

He is known for his controversial stories about Bill Clinton - and claims the Oklahoma bombing was an FBI sting gone wrong... so he enjoys stirring up trouble rather than reporting the truth.

And oh yeah - he's business editor for the Telegraph. One of those right wing pro tory billionaire newspapers that are pushing a brexit agenda for their billionaire bosses gain.

So - yeah - let's pay attention to what this one right wing man with a personal grievance against the Euro has to say. And ignore the dearth of other stories that are reporting on this - almost as if it's not happening.

You're right - it's amazing what you can find out when you do your own research.

why I always implore others to do their own research instead of demanding answers from anonymous ANothers.

However Remainers have a right to demand answers of the people who have chosen the shape of our political and economic future. Pretending that we are are being unreasonable to expect the people who want this thing to have some idea what will happen and how to implement it demeans you intelligence and calls into question your sincerity.

You do realise if that you could give us an answer - some tangible hope of a workable plan - that we'd actually shut up, right? So the floor is yours - shut us all up...

@howabout

Interesting how there is this confusion between choice of currency and membership of the EU.

Can you explain why you conflate the two?

As a reminder there are 19 countries which have chosen the euro and 28 EU members ...

@DorothyL

Don't despair. Fight!

It's not over by a long shot. The EU has now stopped discussions until a viable solution to the NI border appears.

.

I am beyond despair. The leavers are in a bubble of dissonance and will in no way listen to logic. There will be a time when they will in no way admit they voted to leave.

@HappydaysArehere

Don't care if they never admit to voting Leave as long as we don't.

Reality will bite soon. The EU has downed tools until the UK presents a viable solution to the Irish border. It can't unless we choose to remain in the SM and CU.

The mutually exclusive red lines from HMG will be visible to more. The choice will be EEA membership with CU or No Deal. Ireland and the GFA will drive the choice.

No Deal is not gonna happen. No planes. No food. No nuclear fuel. Not. Gonna. Happen.

So when we realise EEA is what we have now MINUS our sovereignty we will choose to stay.

No Deal is not gonna happen. No planes. No food. No nuclear fuel. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Oh my goodness what I would do for your level of optimism! Is there something you're taking? Can I buy it somewhere?
No deal seems so unthinkable because no one can believe that any government would commit such a stupid and senseless act of harm against their country... but there is nothing in this government that makes me hopeful that they aren't that stupid, uncaring and too much in the pockets of their big donors.

I still fight - marches, petitions etc - but I think the govt are probably happy that talks have stopped. They'll just let the clock run down and not think about it until the deadline... so many people are bored of brexit. If the govt stop making speeches and flying over to Brussels, they'll all just assume its happened, that it's all over and done with and that remoaners need to shut up about a done deal. And that benefits TM and the leavers in her cabinet (and the ERG!)
And then it will be 30th March 2019... the shit will hit the fan but it will be too late.

Can't help but notice that no leavers have taken me up on my offer to shut me up once and for all by giving me tangible benefits and workable plans in the two hours since I posted it. Maybe they don't have an answer after all

oh no - wait -

Icantreachthepretzels I agree with you. But there is one hope. That genius of a foreign secretary, the assured advocate of leaving, will come up with a solution. Boris, the beloved by the innocent, will come up trumps. Never fear. If he can’t.Then he will no doubt be cushioned against the severest financial meltdown while normal families,some of who were beguiled by him, will suffer beyond early recovery. This country has fought against all sorts of odds but this is the first time we have attacked ourselves. I weep.

@Icantreachthepretzels

I hear you. The strategy does seem to be to run the clock out and blame the EU.

But I'm still hopeful that democracy wins out in the end and that the madness of no deal is stopped.

My belief is that public sentiment will change. This will cause more MPs to get behind stopping this idiotic experiment.

Right now this is not a winning bet. I will concede. I'm being logical and rational while the opposition is not.

So we keep fighting.

But there is one hope. That genius of a foreign secretary, the assured advocate of leaving, will come up with a solution.

@OliviaD68 I really really hope you're right.

I like the EU. Wish Britain weren't leaving.

the EU's tone is ruining everything.

If only someone had warned us this would happen.

anything ‘pro remain’ is a fact to you, & anything ‘pro leave’ is fantasy

surfer anything pro leave is more than a little light on facts though isn’t it?

What ‘facts’ do you have about how leaving SM/CU is compatible with no hard border?