Sanctuary wanted!

[YATTA]

I'll be brief.
Is there an active men's only forum around where I can talk relationships away from here.
DW reads Mumsnet regularly in case you hadn't guessed.

Actually - scrap the men's only bit. Any input would be welcome.

Not that i know of. Most men don't want to talk about relationships really. It's enough to have to live with them - let alone talk about them.

Don't forget though that MN isn't really a women only site although it is dominated by women and called "Mums"net. You won't find a website that only lets men post - or if you do - how do they police it?

The only forum i have ever posted on that has no women is solely about music. It is a depressing place with posts about tits, poker, drinking, boys toys, films and err.....more drinking. It is certainly not the place to be talking about realtionships since most of the guys avatars are porno piccies of busty, oiled women doing unsavoury things.

Best avoided really.

Hmmm..you'll be struggling..unless the relationship you had in mind was with inanimate objects..or with your own dear 'friend' on your own anatomy...as imperfect as MN is......it's pretty sharp and informative on the gender things..though sometimes crass at making bloke-related stereo-types that some posters like to indulge themselves in......

Eric..x-posts, but similar message??

Oh boy!
On re-reading it my post sounds like I've got some shameful secret that requires an outlet!
Definitely not the case!
I just need to vent my feelings about arguements/general unhappiness in my marriage anonymously.

Can you disguise yourself enough so that dw does not guess it is you? Can you do it at times of day when she is not on line and not likely to see it in active convos?

Actually, if I discovered dh on here ranting about me (are you my dh by the way?), I don't think I would be offended. I am aware that there are problems in our marriage and would be interested to read how he views them as we do not appear to be able to discuss them together particularly well.

I second GooseyLoosey's POV yatta. I think the silent majority on here really respect the men who come on here for advice/support about parenting or relationship issues - and I too would see a recognisable dh posting here as a wake-up call that we needed to talk to each other urgently - not be livid or threatened, I think.
I am so sorry you are having difficulties right now - life after having children can be very fraught, many of us have been there and got through it in the end .

If you've just stormed out of my house calling me a load of names then yes, I think I'm your DH. Did you remember to lock the side gate this time?

Joking aside. I'm not really wanting a rant - I'm genuinely wanting independant views on the state of our marriage. I feel I can acknowledge when I've been a t**t (and I have at times) but don't feel it's reciprocated when she has hurt me.

Sod the other forums. Who am I kidding? Mumsnet is obviously where it's at.

YATTA ... I have sympathy with your pov. Is there someway you can make a living (as the MN founders do) by starting a men's site of your own?

Y. - it may be where it's at. Try to ignore the rubbish that will come your way. It's just rubbish.
IF you have stuff to discuss there are LOTS of excellent, empathetic female posters around.

No, not dw as still at work.

Can you rant at those of us here now?

I suspect from the little you have said that your marriage and mine may have some similar features. I feel that I acknowledge my failings but dh seems utterly oblivious to any at all.

That's not really going to occupy my thoughts at the moment, but thanks for the vote of sympathy.

A bit of background would help:
The last few months have been difficult, both because of external influences and because of how we've handled the impact of them on our relationship. I really regret the way I've dealt with some issues, but think I've since acknowledged them and apologised and tried to avoid behaving similarly since. The trouble is I feel like I'm walking on eggshells in that I truly want to make things work, and believe DW does too, but whenever she does something that upsets me in her own words "it's tough".
My choices seem to be suffer in silence or try to raise these points but risk damaging upward turn in our relationship.
Any similar experiences?

Sorry, slow typer!
Last post to Des

And I also agree that women can be less noble in relationships. Men are expected to do much work in that area, women are expected to do less. We have a greater support network, and I think it's a really cool idea to set up an independent website where men can let this stuff out.

It would be good if you could do it here. Perhaps you've found it difficult so far?

I have come to the conclusion that the best solution for dh and I may be to talk to some kind of counselor. I admit that I do not really like the idea of this but I find that when we do try and discuss the issues in our marriage we are too concerned with protecting our respective positions to actually move towards any kind of compromise.

A thought, there are things which dh has said/done in the past which in my view (and he would agree) are so bad that they almost justify certain hurt inflicted now by me. He has apologised, but we both know that it does not erase what was said and somehow when he acknowledges that it is still a problem, it helps. Could there be issues like that between you and dw?

To be honest Des. It's not so much wanting to chat to other dads/husbands, just wanting a forum independent of DW's, but I guess that's gone out the window now!

Spot on GL! But from my point of view, I feel in the past I have bared all in trying to resolve an issue, but DW won't budge.

Sorry, Yatta. Bit of an X-post.

Well, Pan is a good man to talk to.

From my perspective, I have every sympathy. Despite being a woman (and I honestly do look like one ), I have often been accused of being a bloke in my outlook. Does this bother me? Not a jot. I have every respect for your sex, and the predicament you find yourself in.

It seems to me that you have done what you can. You have apologized, and you have tried to behave differently. From what I can gather, your efforts have been met with a firewall.

It must be extremely frustrating. If you're blokey, you're a wanker. If you apologize, you're weak. That's an over-simplification, but I'm probably warm.

Very warm. I don't want to be comdemning about her behaviour, that would be unconstructive, but a firewall is exactly what I feel I'm battling with.
In fairness to her, the other day an old, still smouldering issue reared it's ugly head again and stubbornly, I decided I wasn't going to walk away from it again. It took a bit of hounding, but I finally feel I was allowed to get my viewpoint across and she did listen. It was a weight off my chest and hopefully I made her see what she did that upset me without turning it into the blame game.

Difficult - problem is that although I want to remain married to dh, I don't actually forgive him for the particular things he said. I feel that I can't because they were so fundamental to who I am and actually had a significant and long term impact on my self esteem. I know this doesn't help you, but may be how your dw feels?

Although dh apologised for the things he said he has never done anything to demonstrate that they are not the way he sees things - we have just never mentioned the issue again. For me this means that it never really goes away (and this has lasted over a decade).

By the way - thanks to all posters.

Sorry to hear that GL. DW has had self esteem issues since childhood, so I've always tried to help move her away from that - she really does have so many good points. Recently, however, I feel the downward turn in our marriage has undone a lot of that.
Maybe her firewall is her defence mechanism.

Ok - serious stuff now.

This is something simliar to what i have had experience with in the past. Although pulling up/discussing your DW's issues (whether her fault or yours) can result in a massive argument/falling out that seems insurmountable - it is better in the long run really.

Women tend to fly off the hook and get more emotional about issues and it can seem bad at the time - but they do honestly appreciate getting it out in the open and on the table. It can be a painful experience, but they(and you) will feel better for it in the end.

I have had some pretty hard times in the past over me bringing up my DW's faults/issues and how it was making me feel and act - but after a couple of days of stewing and thinking - she admitted that i had made some valid points and we felt a lot closer for it.

Getting these issues out on the open with a woman can be an extremely difficult process cos they sure as hell do not make it easy for us guys - but it does sort itself out in the end.

This is on the assumption (of course) that you love each other and have something worthwhile together that is worth arguing over. Me and the DW are very happy together 99.9% of the time and have had a few dodgy momnets but we always work through it together.

Then YATTA, you're a very good man.

There is a perception that women have strong, social links. To come on to MN some nights must make men feel that they're a sub-culture. Of course, this isn't true.

I know nothing of the specifics of your relationship, and I'm far to blokey to ask, but I understand that you love your wife, and you are doing what you can to make things better.

You must continue to talk to her. You must, of course, make love to her. But (as you rightly know), this must not be a one way street. I think you're doing the right things. If she doesn't respond, then I think it's perfectly legit to admit a certain failure (disappointment) on her part.