AZ clots and bans for under 30's risks over what period, 2nd jab questions

[Emma2021]

Hiya
I always suspected there was truth behind the AZ clots, even though our gov is saying it's not proven but evidence is getting "firmer."

I said to my OH a few weeks ago not everyone in the EU hates the UK and there must be some truth. The about 3 weeks ago when the media started spouting "risks outweigh the benefits" spouting what the politicians etc where say I said to my other half, that is the evidence that there is a lot of truth to the clots link.

ATM still in fav of vaccines but all along I preferred the Pifzer but got the AZ

Questions:

when do people that had clots start getting the sympotoms ie a few hours after the jab, a few days, weeks, etc?

what are the treatments if caught early

those waiting, getting their 2nd AZ, are they are risk of these clots?

These questions need answers ASAP and non of the media gang seem capable of pulling up the politicans/SAGE re these answers and all we will hear now is - "risks outweight the benfits" - True but we need to know

Before I finish this post, last week MHRA I thing relaeased stats re clots 1 in 600000, I said to my OH, I bet you its much greater risk than that and yes, today they said its 1 in every 250000 and that is for 20 million jabs - we've done 33 million first jabs so the firgures of the dead and the affected will be higher.

If you see a good, honest news item, etc please point me that way.

We are due our second and worried as we are for our familys like us all as some with medical conditions have had their forst and a few had second ones lot before the 12 weeks and I may be wrong it could be due to people refusing the AZ. I got a call yesterday and my OH last week calling us for the 2nd but we said no we want to wait 11 to 12 weeks as brain washed by our gov that a second jab of AZ is more effective in weeks 11 to 12.

@ajandjjmum

It is within the first 20 days - so next Monday for DD. She's fine and hopefully will remain so. Although she did take the pill for several years, when the risk of clots would have been more significant, so she's not worried at all.

Where did you get the 20 days from please? link please and many thanks

Yes although there is a 0.6% risk of clots for the contraceptive pill. I wonder why there isn't such a campaign about that?

@Frownette

I don't actually care, I just want my second jab. I want things to reopen and be safe. The risk to me is miniscule and if something went wrong my life is not important. Freedom of movement is.

That's how I feel anyway.

So what if you don't care as just as many if not people care. What a silly statement. I despise being kept from the truth.

If we all get the truth/facts we can all make an informed decision.

I am aware there is a risk with most med more so with vaccines i think and these were passed quickly and when the EU lot started talking re jabs links to clots they were initially dismissed.

20 million AZ jabs. Why are you shouting, you seem a little unhinged!

You’re more likely to die on every single long car journey you take than from a blood clot caused by the vaccine. You have a 1 in 1000 chance of dying from Covid if 40.

@Emma2021 the 20 million is the number of AZ jabs given some of the 30 million will be Pfizer. Symptoms show between 4 and 20 days though today on the press conference they said most clots occurred within two weeks. There isn’t yet enough data re second jabs.

Reporting Scotland tonight said that not one person got a clot from their second jag. Everyone who got a clot was at their first jag

I was told that the risks were within the first 4 days.

I had “blood clot related symptoms”, but have to have the second AZ jab. I’m nervous, but I’ve been told chances are that I’ll get the same response again or less - the AZ is working the opposite to Pfizer, and the first jab is worse for symptoms, allegedly.

4 in a million, if you want the star they used today.

VANISHINGLY RARE they said when they put that stat into words.

Additional precaution when possible based on the fact that there are alternative vaccines available.

But still AZ is as safe as any other vaccine for all ages.

Research is ongoing...

Pfizer and Moderna are not without doubt too, Google incidence of IPT in the US, eg.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.26132
"Thrombocytopenia following Pfizer and Moderna SARS‐CoV‐2 vaccination"

JVT and the European lady made that point too: other vaccines are under similar scrutiny, they don't consider any of them to be more or less safe than any other.

@time4anothername

Pfizer and Moderna are not without doubt too, Google incidence of IPT in the US, eg. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.26132 "Thrombocytopenia following Pfizer and Moderna SARS‐CoV‐2 vaccination"

The startling difference is the amount of money Pfizer et al have to lose.

Do you UNDERSTAND its 79 people and NOT 20 as you put it.

The risk is still tiny.

I'll be going for my second jab.

I'm due my second jab in a fortnight. I'm in my 50s and just finished chemo. I figure that CoVID is more of a risk to me than the vaccination.

@roguetomato

Thread title is misleading, I think. They didn't ban AZ for under 30s, just that they recommended other vaccines where possible, since younger people have less chance of seriously ill by catching covid, so considering the balance of risk and benefit?

Yes, this appears to have gone unreported in some news outlets, it appears the risk is the same across all age groups and sex, the difference is the risk of covid is greater for those over 30 so on balance it is worth getting the vaccine (although this risk is a sliding scale, a healthy 35 year old...)

The thread total is a downright lie.

Your thread title is incorrect and misleading.

AZ has not been banned for under 30s.

Moderna and Pfizer are, however, being offered as an alternative whilst it's all being investigated.

Even if the number is now 79 that is still an incredibly low number. Even if you only look at under 50s having that vaccine it's still incredibly low.

And that is 79 people who experienced the blood clot. 79 people haven't died from them.

@ceilingsand

The thread total is a downright lie.

Care to elaborate?

Has anyone taken part in the Ensemble 2 Covid Vaccine Trial and had an ongoing itchy rash reaction?

Spend a day with me and you'll fight to be at the front of the queue, even now.

@SuperintendentHastings

I think you would be better to direct your questions to your GP, rather than this forum to be honest OP. Hope you get some answers.

What exactly do you think your common garden GP will be able to add to this? All they know is what they're told the same as us.

There hasn't been a cover up - the situation is as it has always been - the position the EU and the UK took initially was that the benefits outweighed the risks and if the AZ vaccine was the ONLY option, they still would - 19 deaths in 20 million jabs is nothing compared to what the virus would cause (I don't know how the other 60 people with clots got on except they didn't die - anyone know?)

What both the UK and the EU are currently thinking is that in the younger groups, the risk/reward ratio isn't as stacked towards the vaccine as in the older groups - it then becomes a balancing act because if you slow down the vaccination program to wait for alternative vaccines, you're going to risk more infections which increases the vaccine benefit ratio...

People struggle to get their head around risk/reward relationships though - they expect interventions to be 100% safe, never factoring in what the risk is from NOT intervening, but doctors have to take these decisions all the time.

Side note - I learned about a condition called Sudden Arrhythmic Death Syndrome yesterday. Basically a seemingly totally healthy individual suddenly dies due to a unknown heart condition. It kills about 500 people in the UK every year. Anyone could be struck down by it at any moment, but we don't go around worrying about it.
By contrast, even if all 79 clotting victims had died, if we vaccinated the entire adult population of the UK with the AZ vaccine, we'd be looking at 3x that, about half as many as SADS cases.... and people are worrying themselves to death about it!

@Whichjab

Do people really think that GPs have the knowledge or more importantly the TIME to talk to everyone that quite rightly is concerned by this news?

My thoughts exactly.

It has absolutely not been banned for under 30s.

Under-30s are to be offered an alternative Covid jab to the AstraZeneca vaccine, the UK's vaccine advisory body (BBC today)

Healthy adults under 30 should be offered an alternative vaccine to the AstraZeneca jab if there is one available in their area and they are not at high risk of Covid, following concerns over rare blood clots, the UK government’s vaccination advisory body has said.

(Guardian, today)

The thread total is wrong and it is inflammatory.

Haven't read full thread as frankly, I can't be bothered . But just adding there was a really good discussion on radio 4 PM. First two weeks after first vaccination js when this has shown itself . Clots are not related to the type you get on the pill or anything else (pill clots way way way more common btw).

I'm having my second for certain.
Also watch the presser, really good graphics about risk benefit .

I'd also recommend reading all the patient leaflets on all the medications you have in your house and scaring yourself silly about those instead. Ibuprofen in particular is a good one to read for frights

It was, wasn't it? That one "I'll talk through this one slowly" graph answered so many questions... and raised a few others.