AZ clots and bans for under 30's risks over what period, 2nd jab questions

[Emma2021]

Hiya
I always suspected there was truth behind the AZ clots, even though our gov is saying it's not proven but evidence is getting "firmer."

I said to my OH a few weeks ago not everyone in the EU hates the UK and there must be some truth. The about 3 weeks ago when the media started spouting "risks outweigh the benefits" spouting what the politicians etc where say I said to my other half, that is the evidence that there is a lot of truth to the clots link.

ATM still in fav of vaccines but all along I preferred the Pifzer but got the AZ

Questions:

when do people that had clots start getting the sympotoms ie a few hours after the jab, a few days, weeks, etc?

what are the treatments if caught early

those waiting, getting their 2nd AZ, are they are risk of these clots?

These questions need answers ASAP and non of the media gang seem capable of pulling up the politicans/SAGE re these answers and all we will hear now is - "risks outweight the benfits" - True but we need to know

Before I finish this post, last week MHRA I thing relaeased stats re clots 1 in 600000, I said to my OH, I bet you its much greater risk than that and yes, today they said its 1 in every 250000 and that is for 20 million jabs - we've done 33 million first jabs so the firgures of the dead and the affected will be higher.

If you see a good, honest news item, etc please point me that way.

We are due our second and worried as we are for our familys like us all as some with medical conditions have had their forst and a few had second ones lot before the 12 weeks and I may be wrong it could be due to people refusing the AZ. I got a call yesterday and my OH last week calling us for the 2nd but we said no we want to wait 11 to 12 weeks as brain washed by our gov that a second jab of AZ is more effective in weeks 11 to 12.

I don't get certain things: the risk of 40yo dying from covid is highly skewed. It maybe 1:1000 on average but the reality it will largely be only those with preexisting conditions who are dying. Compare that with the 0.6% for the pill: the pill is taken everyday over many years. Yet the blood clotting risk will be for one vaccine shot: all the risk is with that one act. I don't know how to compare these risks to make the appropriate risk/benefit analysis

@AllWashedOut

I don't get certain things: the risk of 40yo dying from covid is highly skewed. It maybe 1:1000 on average but the reality it will largely be only those with preexisting conditions who are dying. Compare that with the 0.6% for the pill: the pill is taken everyday over many years. Yet the blood clotting risk will be for one vaccine shot: all the risk is with that one act. I don't know how to compare these risks to make the appropriate risk/benefit analysis

And you need to firstly catch it and have a high enough viral load for it to kill you regardless of underlying conditions (It does also kill people without underlying conditions)

Thanks to those that at least give their alternative view without feeling the need to gaslight people.

Thanks to those that at least give their alternative view without feeling the need to gaslight people.

What do you mean @whichjab? Which comments do you believe are gaslighting? I can see people with differing opinions but unless my understanding of what gaslighting is is wrong, I'm just seeing people disagree.

Transexamic acid is commonly used (I take it ) and has risk of clots and they're not even vanishingly rare with that .

Also, a few glasses of wine a week MASSIVELY increases your risk of cancer. As does being overweight.

This vaccine risk is a non story really.

@Emma2021 I'm going to strongly suggest you listen to all of today's MHRA briefing, which answers most if not all of your questions.

The best link I've been able to find it but it cuts off some of the questions and doesn't show the slides. Van Tam starts speakign at about the 28 minute mark.

The slides are available seperately at assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/976877/CovidStats_07-04-21-final.pdf

If anyone has a link to the briefing including all of the slides I'd be grateful if they could share it.

[quote Rainbowsandstorms]@Emma2021 the 20 million is the number of AZ jabs given some of the 30 million will be Pfizer. Symptoms show between 4 and 20 days though today on the press conference they said most clots occurred within two weeks. There isn’t yet enough data re second jabs.[/quote]
Many thanks.

In my earlier comment I meant "title " , not "total".

Ok

to everyone that thried to help and not be samrt, ie the majority here, thank you very much.

If i start quoting every helpful post it will clog up the thread, thanks again to you that have helped and i hope this thread helps others to decide/prepare/etc.

What have blood clots from the pill got to do with this condition? Do people realise they are entirely different?

I saw a chart in relation to age and vaccine risk and it was something like 1 in 200,000 for younger people. I guess the good news is that it is more likely to be treated earlier and not mixed but I don’t know how successful those treatments are

I think we all have to assess our own risk from covid based on what we know eg weight, BMI, pre-existing conditions, blood pressure.

I think a persons view as to how risky the vaccine is can be skewed by their personal circumstances.

I'm in the female 45 to 49 group. I work in a fairly high risk front line role. I will be skipping through the door to get my AZ vaccine on Friday morning. I literally can't wait.

However if I was 29 and working from home all the time I might feel differently ....

@Motorina
thank you and thanks to all.

@tootyfruitypickle

Also, a few glasses of wine a week MASSIVELY increases your risk of cancer. As does being overweight.

This vaccine risk is a non story really.

@SuperintendentHastings here's one, directly below you. Completely disregarding a reasonable worry through whatabouttery.

I hardly think the vaccine risk is a 'non story' if the UK government has finally agreed that the EU were not point scoring and there is an issue.
Stopping AZ for U30's is going to have repercussions.

@Whichjab yes, that comment is after my question to you though. Although I would argue that this isn't gaslighting either, it's not very kind to dismiss someone's fears in this way, but it's not gaslighting. I haven't seen anyone on this thread trying to get the OP to doubt her own sanity. People are disagreeing, some in not a very nice way, but that's not the same thing.

I think our understanding of what that word means is probably different.

Fortunately for the under 30s who want to have a vaccination, there appears to be plenty of the Moderna vaccine available, which is good news.

Runway treatment is blood thinners?

I've had very sudden tragic deaths of family members with thrombocytopenia - now flagged up for this jab. It causes excessive bleeding. The last thing people should do is take blood thinners.

@SuperintendentHastings

Thank you, I agree with your comments. Like any forum, you get people
being a bit nasty, dismissive just because they disagree with someone else.

This is a big story and the way our govn dismissed everything re clots from the EU will have a negative impact.

I may be wrong, but reading up on treatments, caught in time, there is a got chance should you get the clots you should be made good again.

I don't want to worry anyone but our gov/SAGE etc were banging on about AZ being kind of safer as it was derived from a "real virus" as opposed to the completly made up one and that assured me. Now I'm wondering what may happen in a few months. I do worry a lot but I guess this scenario would apply to every other vaccine for Covid and other conditions.

We will be going for our second jab as the news stands but not before the 11 to 12 weeks as people are now getting calls at 6/8 weeks to come on in. I lied when they rang me the other day that i was busy so unable to take the 2nd jab now will be honest and tell them that out SAGE/JVCI or whatever it is called said it worked best at around 12 weeks and will wait

@Roonerspismed
What have blood clots from the pill got to do with this condition? Do people realise they are entirely different?

The parallel between the pill and vaccine have been drawn because clotting risks are similar. The pill is widely taken yet potentially people will not be having the AZ jab because of a similar risk.

BTW blood thinning drugs are NOT the answer. The jab clotting side-effect is associated, perversely, with lower platelets. You could be increasing your risk of clotting by taking thinners!

I do think this is going to be an ever changing situation. Only a few weeks ago there was denial there was any link to blood clots. Now the risk is very probable. My concern is that as it stands there is not enough data on the reaction to the 2nd jab. What if the first jab caused a reduction in platelets but the body was able to cope, the 2nd jab then causes the platelets to drop again causing more significant problems? Also I don’t buy the comparison to the contraceptive pill and blood clots nor the long haul flight. These blood clots are significantly rarer and lower the platelet levels.

Also I think people in UK are so desperate to return to their old lives they are happy to not ask too many questions and have negative reactions to those who do.

Covid disease itself causes a whole mirage of clotting problems therefore it stands to reason the vaccine could create a similar response as it interacts with the immune system. I also strongly believe this will be the case for other Covid vaccines not just AZ.

Getting a bit fed up with comparisons of AZ with contraceptive pill, with regards to blood clots. The contraceptive pill provides daily, tangible, observable benefits albeit with tiny risks. AZ - as Van Tam's own slides showed - AZ provides minuscule benefits to under 30s, alongside, also, tiny risks. Why do people, including scientists, keep equating the two?

I also strongly believe this will be the case for other Covid vaccines not just AZ.

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons appears to have similar concerns...

Blood Clotting Needs to Be Watched with All COVID Vaccines

aapsonline.org/blood-clotting-needs-to-be-watched-with-all-covid-vaccines/

The risk is four in a million. Much more likely to die driving to get the jab.

Nothing is ever 100% safe. Food, travel, walking, your pets... the list is endless. It wasn't before covid and it isn't now.

Why has everyone suddenly become obssessed with zero risk? It must be a side effect of lockdown anxiety I guess?

I have taken heparin for 9 months three times. The risk balance between healthy me and baby and the risk of thrombocytopenia tips the balance in favour of taking it.

These are complicated medical decisions and advice and it is NOIT the same as having a feeling and chatting to your husband about stuff. WE NEED EXPERTS.

@pommedeterre

Don't mean to offend but you wouldnt take Heparin (blood thinner) to avoid thrombocytopenia (bleeding disorder). If anything its a contraindication. It would make it worse. Heparin can actually cause thrombocytopenia.

Unless I've read your post wrong and you are aware it's a risk for you but on balance you accept it? Apologises if I misunderstood

What are the recognised treatments for the two types of clots and how effective are they and if caught early, what are the long term implications.

Australia has banned AZ for under 50's
I get this feeling others lead and after much relecutance we follow, hope I'm wrong

consent.yahoo.com/v2/collectConsent?sessionId=3_cc-session_2208e082-d6e8-4a45-b86d-750b3451f8ed

Atm, if things do not change too much we will still go for the second jab but are more worried,

Re the second jab - is it exactly the same as the one before and by that I mean exactly the same dosage, exactly the same ingredients etc?

@pommedeterre

The risk is four in a million. Much more likely to die driving to get the jab.

Nothing is ever 100% safe. Food, travel, walking, your pets... the list is endless. It wasn't before covid and it isn't now.

Why has everyone suddenly become obssessed with zero risk? It must be a side effect of lockdown anxiety I guess?

I have taken heparin for 9 months three times. The risk balance between healthy me and baby and the risk of thrombocytopenia tips the balance in favour of taking it.

These are complicated medical decisions and advice and it is NOIT the same as having a feeling and chatting to your husband about stuff. WE NEED EXPERTS.

@pommedeterre

Where is the evidence re much more likely to die driving to get a jab as you put it. How many have died whilst "driving to get a jab"?

By your own calculations, when compared with 20 million jabs - 80 people died driving to the jab - does not add up IMO

Did you just make up those figures?