Disengagement 710 - Ethnic cleansing!

[Squeezingwildoranges]

If the current Israeli government manage to expel all Palestinians from the land, should all Israelis be held culpable for not trying to stop it.

It is very easy to drop short, sarcastic remarks implying prejudice, but it is much harder to back them up factually. If you genuinely believe this thread is antisemitic, please show your workings. Where in the text has anyone expressed hatred toward Jewish people, as opposed to analyzing the public record of the Israeli governments official state policy to commit a documented crime against humanity and what the moral responsibility of the electorate is in a democracy? If you cannot find any evidence of prejudice, then the thread stands exactly as intended, a civil, philosophical discussion on democratic responsibility.

You can believe organisations and still recognise that people within them hold their personal biases.

At least 5 people on this thread have already patiently explained how antisemitic your premise is. You've had some of us deleted for doing so. Absolutely disingenuous to pretend no one has explained it to you. You just don't want to hear it.

I didn't see it. All I saw was personal attacks which I have been told I am supposed to report. Perhaps try again, I'm open minded but bear in mind, just shouting it out doesn't equate to proof.

But it’s a false flag argument. People hold all different kinds of prejudices against all kind of different things. Unfortunately that’s human nature.

That is obviously true. Racists hide everywhere. Schools, hospitals, pubs, even probably in Buckingham Palace. You surely can't advocate for blaming an organisation for employing a racist when they didn't know. You can certainly blame them for not getting rid of them if they find out they are.

Exactly - the premise is antisemitic but for those who don't want to see it, I'm done with long posts trying to explain it.

Okay. At least that short post wasn't sarcastic which I appreciate but what I don't appreciate is indirectly being called antisemitic without a shred of evidence.

Well you can believe whatever you like. I prefer to be informed on things to form a belief\opinion though.

I thought like you before I started researching stuff after being utterly horrified by the reaction of people who seemed to be of the view Israel deserved Oct 7th and it was 'legitimate resistance'. I remember people in the West ripping pictures of the hostages down and thinking what the hell is going on!

I thought maybe I was missing something and my immediate instinct that I should feel sympathy for Israel and pure shaking rage at the atrocities of Oct 7th was wrong. So I went down rabbit holes and researched all I could which only cemented that I was on the right side.

You probably won't like this link but I found it shocking and that has informed my opinion. It does back up it's information up with verifiable facts so you can't really argue it's 'propaganda'..

I found the NGOs and Funders section along the top very interesting.

Take B'Tselem, an Israeli organisation founded by “a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members largely from the Meretz and Labor Parties which acts primarily to change Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories". A large share of its institutional funding comes from European governments and European‑based organizations.

The UN, NGOs, and Anti-Israel Bias - ngomonitor

Where does NGO monitoring get its funding from @AnyfoolcanknowThepointistounderstand

Antisemitism is the only form of racism where the victims are routinely lectured on what antisemitism is by people who do not experience it. Its quite extraordinary how unself aware people are about this.

I’m not sure that is quite true. I think all marginalised groups feel this to some extent.

You can look on the website. The info is on there along with financial reports.

Ok then, I'd do it for you.

NGO Monitor was founded jointly with the Wechsler Family Foundation. All our funding is provided by private donors and foundations, and NGO Monitor receives no governmental support.

In contrast to Breaking the Silence and B'tselem where the majority of funding comes from foreign governments/NGOs.

So you could reasonably surmise that the UN and foreign governments/NGOs are basically funding anti-Israel propaganda.

Breaking the Silence

B'tselem

It looks like the screenshots I took (because I'm pretty sure you're not going to look on that website), showing the breakdown of funding which is very interesting, aren't showing. Hopefully mods will let them through.

There's a thread on aibu right now where Brits are explaining to Irish people what racism/xenophobia towards Irish people is and isn't.

You should take a look, it'll blow your mind.

But it is a right wing pro Israel think tank as referenced by its many funders having pro Israel link .

I looked at the financial reports but it doesn't actually list it's private donors. Could you link where you saw them?

I doubt very much that it would blow my mind, I've been involved in anti racism education and activism for over 40 years. I didn't say it never happened to others, I said it was routine for Jews. There's a difference. Subtle, I know.

Is this actually what you tell people when you are 'educating' them on racism? That is is only Jewish people who are routinely told what is and isn't bigotry? I'm really shocked to be honest that educating people on racism involves such blanket statements of denial. That you outright deny that people of other races and ethnicities are routinely told what is and isn't racism, to me that seems really minimising of people's experiences.

Where did you get this fact from if you don't mind me asking, what resources are used when you are 'educating' people about this fact? What is the definition of 'routinely' that was used during this research? As in how often counts as routine? I presume that you 'educate' as part of an organisation, is this an organisation wide stance and something that is taught as standard?

Agreed. Weird, isn’t it?

That’s a complete distortion of what was said.

Really?

Antisemitism is the only form of racism where the victims are routinely lectured on what antisemitism is by people who do not experience it.

It seems pretty unequivocal to me and then Sharon used the fact that she has been involved in anti racism education for decades in order to lend some kind of gravitas to her opinion. Sharon was clear, she stated as a fact that Jewish people are the only victims who are 'routinely' told what is and isn't bigotry. She brought up her 'credentials' to add credence to her statement. She has outright denied that other races and ethnicities are 'routinely' told what is and isn't racism.

I find that really concerning coming from an 'educator' and would like to know where this fact that an educator is using has come from and if this fact is being used by the organisation that Sharon is associated with during anti racism education.

You mean like when Zack Polanski stated that he has been a victim of antisemitism and the right wing press jumped on him simply because his beliefs don't align with their own? That sort of thing? Unfortunately, this has become a huge political football which people like to jump on for their own tribal ends.

Your statement is untrue Sharon and extremely naive.

This is ironic. And very worrying.