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Conflict in the Middle East

US-Iran peace agreement discussion, part 4

1000 replies

RedTagAlan · 13/08/2026 11:40

Thread 4 for those following and commenting on the above subject.

OP posts:
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85
Twiglets1 · 03/09/2026 08:02

Is Trump lying about Iranian protesters getting shot in the tens of thousands? No he is not.

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 08:30

@Twiglets1 ,

‘Is Trump lying about Iranian protesters getting shot in the tens of thousands? No he is not.’

we just cannot know, to be honest. For sure, many protesters were killed, but was it 5,000 or 50,000?! Even 5,000 is a stain on the government, so I am not in any way excusing it!

The below is from AI and they cite PBS as their primary source, which tends to be reliable/

‘Estimates for the death toll during the crackdown on nationwide protests in Iran vary widely, ranging from an official government figure of 3,117 to human rights group verifications exceeding 7,007, with high-end grassroots and health ministry estimates suggesting totals could be upwards of 30,000 to 36,500. 1, 2]
Because the Iranian authorities imposed severe internet blackouts and communication restrictions, independent verification remains exceptionally difficult’

Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

More than 36,500 Iranians were killed by security forces during the January 8-9 crackdown on nationwide protests, making it the deadliest two-day protest massacre in history, according to documents reviewed by Iran International's Editorial Board.

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202601255198

JadeHare · 03/09/2026 08:32

In the Independent:

“In an age of rogue lawlessness dominating international affairs since Donald Trump returned to the Oval Office and then staggered about the globe like a toddler with a chainsaw, it is inevitable that other outlaw nations, Russia and Iran, would see opportunity in the mayhem.
The 47th US president is too infantile and misled by a messianic government in Israel to comprehend that the citizens of Iran will not rise against their oppressors in Tehran under the Stars and Stripes and that Moscow will never be America’s friend.
But Iran’s supreme leader Mojtaba Khamenei (along with his Guardian Council), the Kremlin and Vladimir Putin are locking America into another forever war.
Their long-term intent is to expose the limits of current US power and to further weaken its influence across the Middle East, where the close alliance between Washington and Israel is a liability.
In the latest escalation of the conflict between the US and Iran, Tehran’s murderous theocracy, which has supported anti-Western terror groups since the early 1980s, is dominated by end-times religious fanaticism, and murders its own people in industrial quantities, somehow looks mature compared to America’s leadership.”
“The US, which started the war along with Israel on February 28 this year, provoked Iran to close the Strait of Hormuz, which caused oil prices to spike and yoyo and global shortages of oil deprived essentials like fertilizer.
At the end of August, after a month of relative quiet, US missiles rained down on Larak Island to attack, the Pentagon said, mine-laying vessels Iran was using to choke the Straits.
Iran struck back with missiles targeting US bases in Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait and Iraq. Iran then accused the US of killing at least five people at a wedding party and wounding 68 others in Kuhestak, and striking two Iranian oil tankers.
Trump was right to promise an end to America’s other “forever wars” in Iraq and Afghanistan. The failure of the US and its allies to impose democracy by force while simultaneously relieving themselves of the legal and moral obligations that governed them at home in pursuit of targeting “Islamic Terror” resulted in profligate civilian deaths.”
His next move, made against the advice of the more sensible intelligence and military officials, which his “secretary of war” had not fired, was to embark on a juvenile “short war” only a child could believe could be won from the air.
“His immaturity was signaled to Tehran and Moscow by Trump himself, who boastfully posted an AI mockup of the attack on Larak Island but called it Kharg Island. His allies shudder when he does this kind of thing, or threatens genocide against Iran in wiping out an entire civilization. His enemies snigger. His idiocy is their opportunity, and no one is holding him back.
Iran, which sees the US as The Great Satan, and Russia, which sees America as a perpetual threat to everything including the “Russian soul”, have made sure that Trump is now locked into a long war.
And that US allies see the folly of being close to America. The frontline states are now in the Arabian (or Persian) Gulf where the US Fifth Fleet is stationed in Bahrain, vast air assets are stationed in the UAE and Qatar while Jordan hosts air defence systems and long-term special forces deployments. ”
Meanwhile, Israel, accused of genocide in Gaza, is continuing to drive Palestinians from their homes on the occupied West Bank.
All this makes any move forward with the US-Israeli-driven Abraham Accords to normalise relations between Israel and majority Muslim countries in the Middle East and beyond impossible.
“To make sure that war keeps going, Russia has been supplying Iran with intelligence used to target American forces in the Gulf. It has also been involved in bilateral developments of Shahed guided missiles (used by Russia in Ukraine) and, according to reports in the FT, is also involved in helping Tehran develop ramjet technology to fit fast and low-flying cruise missiles which can get through US air defence systems.
And, by the way, Russia is Iran’s main partner in its "civilian" nuclear energy programme.
Still enthralled by Putin’s power and the strut of a man who manages to bestride the globe with an economy smaller than Italy’s, Trump has put no pressure on Russia to get out of Ukraine and stop helping to kill Americans in Arabia.
He has, rather, given America’s enemies the means to bleed America dry.”

Excerpt From
“Trump doesn’t understand the forever war he’s created with Iran – and Russia”
Sam Kiley
The Independent
https://apple.news/Apm1uG4kvQNS99iZDTnr-FA
This material may be protected by copyright.

Trump doesn’t understand the forever war he’s created with Iran – and Russia — The Independent

Trump remains mesmerized by Putin even as the Kremlin helps Iran kill Americans and weaken US influence around the globe, explains world affairs editor Sam Kiley

https://apple.news/Apm1uG4kvQNS99iZDTnr-FA

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 08:41

@JadeHare ,

That is a very powerful and well written article, albeit somewhat one sided.

Iran surely is suffering too and, certainly, elements within the government would like a settlement with the U.S.

What to me is interesting is how quiet China has been over Iran. I mean, his would the U,S react if a third nation (say China) embargoed somewhere they got vital resources from (say Taiwan). My guess is not well. Even if it didn’t become a war, there would be sanctions and a lot of anger.

China has lost a lot of oil and are so far drawing down from their (large) reserves, but that can’t go on forever. I am kind of guessing that they are pressuring Trump behind the scenes to end things, but it is hard to know.

TopPocketFind · 03/09/2026 08:50

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2026/09/02/does-trump-know-his-enemy-01060326

The Iranian Regime’s Dynamics Are Fooling Trump
The government in Tehran has plenty of debates over tactics, but it’s not fracturing — yet.

One strange aspect of the U.S. faceoff with Iran is that, in this modern age of advanced warfare, some basics have been forgotten.
Stuff like: Make sure you have enough weapons. Keep your friends on your side. And clearly define your ultimate goal.
Perhaps most important, though, is “know your enemy.” An awareness of your enemy’s strengths and weaknesses is key to figuring out how to defeat them.

When it comes to the regime in Tehran, the Trump administration appears to still be in the early learning stages.

Twiglets1 · 03/09/2026 10:52

My guess is behind the scenes China are exerting pressure on both Iran and the US to reach an agreement to end this war soon.

TopPocketFind · 03/09/2026 14:22

Defending his commerce secretary, Trump says 18 Americans have died in Iran

Donald Trump is doing his version of damage control after Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick erroneously claimed no Americans have died during the US war on Iran.

“The way the president is playing Iran…there haven’t been American deaths, it’s really just an economic choke-out,” Lutnick said Wednesday on CNBC while explaining his view that the US bond market would stabilize.

Just after 7 am this morning, Trump said on Truth social that “Sec. Lutnick had Venezuela on his mind when he said nobody was killed. 18 people were killed in Iran!”

Seven American soldiers were injured during the US attack on Venezuela, according to CNBC.

source The Guardian

RedTagAlan · 03/09/2026 14:47

TopPocketFind · 03/09/2026 14:22

Defending his commerce secretary, Trump says 18 Americans have died in Iran

Donald Trump is doing his version of damage control after Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick erroneously claimed no Americans have died during the US war on Iran.

“The way the president is playing Iran…there haven’t been American deaths, it’s really just an economic choke-out,” Lutnick said Wednesday on CNBC while explaining his view that the US bond market would stabilize.

Just after 7 am this morning, Trump said on Truth social that “Sec. Lutnick had Venezuela on his mind when he said nobody was killed. 18 people were killed in Iran!”

Seven American soldiers were injured during the US attack on Venezuela, according to CNBC.

source The Guardian

Double edged sword ?

If he downplays the deaths and injuries, his base won't turn against him. But if he had a mass death/ injury event, he could use that as justification to use full force against them.

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:02

https://www.wsj.com/politics/tillis-wants-hegseth-fired-is-the-pentagon-chief-in-trouble-6a1f97ac?st=Z1tzG1&reflink=article_copyURL_share

WSJ article saying that influential senator calling for Hegseth to be fired. Follows closely on the army secretary resigning in protest at Hegseth.

RedTagAlan · 03/09/2026 15:29

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:02

https://www.wsj.com/politics/tillis-wants-hegseth-fired-is-the-pentagon-chief-in-trouble-6a1f97ac?st=Z1tzG1&reflink=article_copyURL_share

WSJ article saying that influential senator calling for Hegseth to be fired. Follows closely on the army secretary resigning in protest at Hegseth.

Trump won't like that.

What senator ? I can't open the link.

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:31

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:02

https://www.wsj.com/politics/tillis-wants-hegseth-fired-is-the-pentagon-chief-in-trouble-6a1f97ac?st=Z1tzG1&reflink=article_copyURL_share

WSJ article saying that influential senator calling for Hegseth to be fired. Follows closely on the army secretary resigning in protest at Hegseth.

@RedTagAlan ,

Tillis, Democrat North Carolina

RedTagAlan · 03/09/2026 15:35

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:31

@RedTagAlan ,

Tillis, Democrat North Carolina

Thanks. Just a Dem then, Trump can just ignore.

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:46

@RedTagAlan ,

Apologies, he is republican.

Brief excerpt:

“I have never witnessed more inept management of the brave men and women who serve our country,” Tillis wrote of Hegseth. “He is intimidated by competence and retreats to ginning up culture wars instead of soberly attending to the vital work of our national defense and the health and well-being of our fighting force.”

Ginning?” “Soberly?” Those are pretty loaded comments at a defense secretary who was once heavily criticized for his drinking.

RedTagAlan · 03/09/2026 15:58

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 15:46

@RedTagAlan ,

Apologies, he is republican.

Brief excerpt:

“I have never witnessed more inept management of the brave men and women who serve our country,” Tillis wrote of Hegseth. “He is intimidated by competence and retreats to ginning up culture wars instead of soberly attending to the vital work of our national defense and the health and well-being of our fighting force.”

Ginning?” “Soberly?” Those are pretty loaded comments at a defense secretary who was once heavily criticized for his drinking.

Yeah. But he is a dem. Trump won't care.

If any repubs sway, Trump will just threaten to primary them. He has the Senate locked down. Is Mitch still alive by the way ?

The way the Senate is set up, 2 per State no matter the population, difficult for dems to get control.

Edit. Sorry. Misread. He will get primaried then ?

OP posts:
JadeHare · 04/09/2026 07:53

From the Independent:

“US vice president JD Vance has claimed that China is “willing to play ball” in efforts to economically isolate Tehran, despite Beijing previously declaring that US sanctions would not disrupt their trade with the country.
“I’m not saying they’re doing everything that we’ve asked them to do, but I think that the PRC has been much more responsible, certainly than the Iranians, and much more responsible than a couple of other nations as well,” he told reporters at the White House on Thursday.
He also claimed that the conflict between Washington and Tehran is “not a war”, in comments to reporters on Thursday.
“I wouldn’t call it a war. Right now, there is no active shooting,” he said at a White House press briefing. “I recognise there have been places where this has flared up. Major combat operations… lasted for about six weeks.”
Meanwhile, president Donald Trump insisted he had done the “right thing” with the war.
It comes amid fears Trump is planning to extend Washington’s war on Iran, after The Wall Street Journal reported that the Pentagon was extending the presence of troops in the Middle East into next year. ”

Excerpt From
“Iran-US war latest: JD Vance claims China will help economically isolate Tehran and says conflict ‘not a war’”
Maroosha Muzaffar
The Independent
https://apple.news/ArhNesey4RU-3lafwIrz4SA
This material may be protected by copyright.

The US promised ‘the toughest sanctions ever’ on Iran. Here’s what they delivered

Despite warning of an ‘economic D-Day’, experts tell Maira Butt that Washington stepped back from the toughest measures over fears it would harm the global economy

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/bessent-us-sanctions-iran-explained-china-b3038766.html

JadeHare · 04/09/2026 09:55

From the WSJ:

“When war arrived in this playground for the ultrarich in the Middle East this spring, its leaders, like others across the Arab Gulf, pinned their hopes on a brief conflict, expecting to roar back by the fall and end a disastrous period in their history.
Instead, they are writing the year off as a loss, according to people familiar with their thinking, as fighting between the U.S. and Iran drags into its seventh month and a bleak economic picture descends on the region.
Marquee events have been disrupted, and luxury hotels are largely empty and slashing staff as war risks keep air travelers away. The Bahrain Grand Prix Formula One race is still happening this October, but thousands of miles away in Malaysia.
Saudi Arabia, which has made a multibillion-dollar bet on videogames, moved the E-Sports World Cup from Riyadh to Paris, and Formula One canceled April’s race in the kingdom. The Abu Dhabi Grand Prix is still on the calendar for December, though Formula One says that could change depending on events. A music festival headlined by Shakira in the United Arab Emirates this year has already been pulled.
Aviation, real estate, tourism, shipping and hotels continue to be hit hard across the region. Companies are dealing not only with a lack of demand but also with shipping bottlenecks that have delayed deliveries of everything from heavy machinery to kegs of imported beer.
“When this thing ends, it is still going to take six months for things to start to feel normal again,” said Rafael Khanoyan, chief executive at U.A.E. contractor Al Ryum Group, who said shipment backlogs and rerouted containers have sharply increased the price of imported goods.
Arab Gulf leaders came into the summer expecting the violent phase of the war to wind down in favor of long negotiations over Iran’s nuclear program, allowing economic activity to bounce back closer to normal, the people familiar with their thinking said.
Those hopes are now gone. Gulf leaders expect the rest of the year will be a washout and are looking at an extended period of low-level conflict with no clear U.S. path to bring it to an end, the people said.”
“Businesspeople in the hardest-hit sectors in Dubai are signaling a recovery could be a long way off, even as the government has restricted information about war damage, stopped publishing some data and gone on a marketing blitz to portray life in the emirate as back to its prewar best.
Wynn Resorts—which is building the first legal casino resort in the U.A.E. at a price tag of more than $5 billion—said the war has led to a monthslong delay in opening and has increased costs by hundreds of millions of dollars.
“Look, I’m not going to tell you there’s no risk, but when we underwrote the project…we didn’t underwrite a region with zero geopolitical risk,” Wynn Chief Executive Craig Billings said on a call with investors in August. “We underwrote a country with a demonstrated ability to manage through it.””
“Many European and North American airlines—including Air Canada, KLM and Lufthansa—have extended their suspensions of flights to Dubai, in some cases until next year.
Gulf-based airlines have continued to fly across the region, even using Iranian airspace. Their risk appetite is higher. Dozens of planes have landed at or departed Dubai International Airport within five minutes of warnings of missile or drone attacks, The Wall Street Journal has reported. ”
“Dubai International Airport, typically among the world’s busiest, said its passenger traffic fell 31% year-over-year in the first half of 2026. It said cargo shipments are down 29% in the same period.
Hotel occupancy rates dropped to 56% in the first half of the year from around 80% in 2025, according to a report from Cavendish Maxwell, a Persian Gulf-based property consulting firm. Luxury and upscale properties faced the steepest occupancy declines.
The crisis is making tourism less attractive as a counterweight to oil as Saudi Arabia works to reduce its reliance on hydrocarbons under Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s Vision 2030 plan, said Neil Quilliam, an associate fellow at international affairs think tank Chatham House in London.”
“Vision 2030 was already a bit on the rocks, and they were already changing their priorities,” said Quilliam, referring to the ambitious economic and social change effort. “There seems to be a push now away from the softer sides of the business goals, more toward industrialization.”
Dubai’s real-estate index, which tracks publicly listed developers, had lost about a third of its value as of Thursday from just before the war.
Residential sales fell 31% in the spring. Sales of luxury properties above $4 million were hit even harder—down 59%, according to a report from Betterhomes, a Dubai property brokerage. ”
“This year went into the trash,” said Walid Abou Sabha, a Dubai-based property consultant.
Originally from Lebanon, Abou Sabha moved to Dubai in 2023 to tap into the city’s post-Covid real-estate rush. He went from earning around $2,000 a month in other Middle Eastern markets to pulling in $65,000 a month selling properties and living the flashy Dubai lifestyle of fast cars, parties and expensive watches.
After Iran began firing on Dubai on the first day of the war, Abou Sabha said his sales in the early spring fell from seven a month to zero, though he said he expects the sector to rebound in a few years.
“You cannot gamble against Dubai. Any time people did, they ended up losing,” Abou Sabha said. ”
“Prices in Dubai have held up better than demand. Average sales prices for residential homes were up 3% in the second quarter of 2026 from the same period last year, according to Betterhomes. Hotel prices fell only 7% in the first half of the year from the same period of 2025 despite the high vacancies. Airfares have remained high as competition dropped off and jet-fuel prices rose.
Alistair Paine, chief executive of Peninsula, a consulting company that helps international businesses establish operations in Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E., said prices would eventually succumb to the drop in business, though probably not till the end of the year.
“There is a time effect to be realized here,” Paine said.”
“Some countries in Asia are aiming to attract businesses leaving the Persian Gulf. Singapore in August announced a tax exemption for some investment profits earned by fund managers. Turkey in June introduced a 20-year tax exemption on certain foreign-sourced income for new residents and a reduced inheritance tax.
Both countries already make it easier for residents to become naturalized citizens than Persian Gulf states, which have extremely restrictive naturalization policies.
“They are incentivizing companies to capitalize on what is going on in the Gulf,” Quilliam said.
Companies that moved into the Gulf chasing the wealth in the region, however, are wrestling with the reality that bureaucratic hurdles and punitive attitudes toward firms that leave could make it tough to return, he said. ”
“The U.A.E. has tried to calm the nerves of its business community, with high-ranking Emirati officials, who typically maintain a low public profile, meeting with investors and entrepreneurs.
Dubai in the spring approved a series of stimulus packages worth about $680 million. The measures allow for deferrals of—or exemptions from—some government fees, support for hotels and streamlined residency processes.”
“Dubai is also passing out hundreds of dollars in tourist vouchers that include free tickets to water and theme parks, nearly half-price hotel stays at the city’s posh Palm Jumeirah and three months of a premium food-delivery subscription.
An Emirati-hosted international golf tournament is set to take place in November. Musician Hans Zimmer, bands Imagine Dragons and the Chainsmokers, as well as comedians Russell Peters and Trevor Noah, are scheduled to perform in the country before the year’s end.
But U.A.E. officials acknowledge the war could again prove an impediment.
“A state of neither war nor peace cannot be a sustainable solution,” Anwar Gargash, a senior Emirati adviser, said on social media this week.”

Excerpt From
“The Bahrain Grand Prix…in Malaysia? War Is Ruining the Year for the Wealthy Gulf”
Omar Abdel-Baqui, Summer Said
The Wall Street Journal
https://apple.news/AnnHsNHJPQ0mlJ3qNPt25qg
This material may be protected by copyright.

The Bahrain Grand Prix…in Malaysia? War Is Ruining the Year for the Wealthy Gulf — The Wall Street Journal

Leaders are giving up on hopes for a rebound as the war grinds on without an end in sight

https://apple.news/AnnHsNHJPQ0mlJ3qNPt25qg

Twiglets1 · 04/09/2026 11:02

Scott Bessent on X today: “The European Union has officially joined Operation Economic Outcast and we appreciate their strong and early stance”.

He said the US “stands firm with our allies” in seeking to prevent the Iranian government from using the global financial system “to fund its nuclear ambitions, weapons programs and terror proxies”.

Newbutoldfather · 04/09/2026 11:10

I don’t know why people rate Bessent so highly.

He is neither a brilliant money manager (look at how his hedge fund did when it didn’t have inside info) nor a brilliant politician.

And, like all of Trump’s cabinet, he has to make the Faustian pact of backing Trump, no matter how ludicrous his actions.

I think it is only compared to his Great Leader that he seems sensible.

Twiglets1 · 04/09/2026 11:33

Newbutoldfather · 04/09/2026 11:10

I don’t know why people rate Bessent so highly.

He is neither a brilliant money manager (look at how his hedge fund did when it didn’t have inside info) nor a brilliant politician.

And, like all of Trump’s cabinet, he has to make the Faustian pact of backing Trump, no matter how ludicrous his actions.

I think it is only compared to his Great Leader that he seems sensible.

By contrast to Trump he does seem more grown up - pretty much any spokesperson would do.

The EU statement he refers to was made on August 31st. It opens by listing the bloc’s longstanding complaints, such as Iran’s nuclear and ballistic missile programmes, it’s destabilising activities in the region and in Europe, its military support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and it’s repression of the Iranian population.

It notes that the EU has “adopted extensive sanctions to prevent Iran from exploiting the global economy and financial system” and “remains ready to take further measures, where necessary, to safeguard its security and interests, including freedom of navigation through the Strait of Hormuz”.

The statement doesn’t say it has joined Operation Economic Outcast so Bessent may be exaggerating unless he knows more than what the EU explicitly stated.

RedTagAlan · 04/09/2026 11:43

I looked it up. Here it is in full

"Statement in context of G20 Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors meetings on 31 August and 1 September, in Asheville, US
31.08.2026 EEAS Press Team
The European Union has consistently urged Iran to curb its nuclear programme, and its ballistic missile programme, refrain from destabilising activities in the region and in Europe, stop its military support for Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine and cease the violence and repression against its own people.
The European Union believes continued diplomatic efforts are necessary to reach a peace settlement, restore regional stability and ensure full freedom of navigation and safe transit through the Strait of Hormuz.
The EU has adopted extensive sanctions to prevent Iran from exploiting the global economy and financial system to sustain its hostile actions and undermine international security. It remains ready to take further measures, where necessary, to safeguard its security and interests, including freedom of navigation through the Strait of Hormuz.
The EU welcomes efforts at ensuring that Iran ceases its destabilising activities and engages in peace negotiations with good faith, also through additional economic pressure, including through the US led Operation Economic Outcast.
The EU will continue to work closely with the United States and other G7 and international partners to maintain pressure on Iran and contribute to de-escalation and regional stability."

Nothing new in there it seems. Just that it "welcomes efforts at ensuring that Iran ceases its destabilising activities and engages in peace negotiations with good faith, also through additional economic pressure, including through the US led Operation Economic Outcast."

I bolded the "with good faith" bit. Looks like an important condition.

Statement in context of G20 Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors meetings on 31 August and 1 September, in Asheville, US | EEAS (europa.eu)

Statement in context of G20 Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors meetings on 31 August and 1 September, in Asheville, US

The European Union has consistently urged Iran to curb its nuclear programme, and its ballistic missile programme, refrain from destabilising activities in the region and in Europe, stop its military support for Russia's war of aggression against Ukrai...

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/statement-context-g20-finance-ministers-and-central-bank-governors-meetings-31-august-and-1_en

OP posts:
rainingsnoring · 04/09/2026 11:44

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twiglets1 · 04/09/2026 11:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

If I was addressing you directly I would have tagged you.

rainingsnoring · 04/09/2026 11:50

Twiglets1 · 04/09/2026 11:49

If I was addressing you directly I would have tagged you.

Whatever you say Twigs.

rainingsnoring · 04/09/2026 11:51

And report.

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