Why don't the Palestinians turn on Hamas?

[mids2019]

So it appears the remnants of Hamas are hunkered down in Raffah but is there not an opportunity for ordinary Palestinians to revolt against that leadership of at least think of another governing body? Even the Hamas fighters sitting in tunnels must know this is a suicide defence of their positions and no military victory is possible so why not save themselves and the people they allegedly fight for?

I just find it strange that we continue to view Hamas as some kind of functional governing entity when quite it is clearly not and we get announcements from the Hamas Health Ministry when I doubt that there are in reality very few ministries functioning in Gaza.

It may well be Palestinians aren't in a position to wrest control from their psychotic death cult leadership but will there be a point where the Palestinians can turn to alternative leaders to start a peace process?

The palestinians are likely a bit preoccupied with being fucking bombed to shit by the Israeli army right now.

How do you propose they should do this?

@Branleuse

But surely the fighters don't have that much trust in their military leadership?

@Parkingt111

I think it would be more the military leadership knowing that a victory in a military sense can't be won.

I guess Hamas may look for a ceasefire but that doesn't ultimately solve the problem. If Hamas goes I guess you can look at a peace process?

The median age of the population of Palestine is 19 years old. Can’t you see why parents keep their head down to protect their children ?

How can Palestinians compete with the mega budget weapons of Israel ?

Have you seen what living conditions are like during “peace” times? Israeli rule is hardly better than Hamas.

Netanyahu is using this opportunity to wipe out the Palestinians and he’s being funded by the West. It is much easier for the population in the West to demand that their governments stop funding Israel but that’s not going to happen either.

Bit hard to revolt when starving hungry and being bombed.

You want refugees looking after hungry babies etc to stage a coup? With what resources? They don’t even have running water or reliable electricity, how will they secretly network with each other to overthrow their government? Where will they get arms and know how to use them, to then go on to battle Israel, one of the most powerful and sophisticated armies in the world?

Who’s to say the average person in Palestine wants Hamas overthrown? I have no idea if they do or don’t in any majority, but what I do believe is that they won’t be viewing their leaders and their situation through a Western/pro-Israel lens. They’re being blitzed to pieces, are starving, sick and injured, but should be rallying around and becoming rebel fighters?

To add, we accept them as some sort of functioning governing body in the sense that we accept their bulletins etc about what they want, reported deaths etc. but Hamas were (a long time ago) democratically elected. We give all sorts of psychopaths/despots etc credence but doesn’t always mean much. Israel itself has made claims that have been reported as news/fact and then turns out can’t actually be verified. The BBC etc also reports statements from the Kremlin and North Korea.

I expect they are just trying to survive the next couple of days without starving right now.

It may well be Palestinians aren't in a position to wrest control

You've answered your own question.

will there be a point where the Palestinians can turn to alternative leaders to start a peace process?. I’m sure theyr busy trying to stay alive, the Israelis can start a peace process by stopping killing people. The Israelis could allow food and medicine into Palestine and help save thousands of innocent lives.

More than half seem to support Hamas...?
Palestinian poll shows a rise in Hamas support and close to 90% | AP News

How do you get a ceasefire without negotiation though? I don't see Hamas military strategy at all? I thought some within the Hamas leadership may see that they are losing and start to make rational judgments about how to achieve peace.

Yeah, why is that? Remind me....

The palestinians are likely a bit preoccupied with being fucking bombed to shit by the Israeli army right now.

Yeah this times a million!
75 years of violence against them by the Israeli army which has ramped up massive since October.
These people have nothing left.

Do you honestly believe if these Hamas fighters came out with their hands up ready to do a deal with Israel they wouldn't be blown to bits?

How do you get a ceasefire without negotiation though?
There is negotiations happening between Israel and Hamas with Qatar acting as mediators. How do you think the first ceasefire and hostages release happened?

@TwilightSkies

so what do Hamas hope to achieve by not accepting ceasefire calls? What is the Hamas strategy?

From a neutral perspective would any leader of a people not look to surrender or at least see what can be done to achieve peace. I also think Israel needs to be clear about its goals and when it would feel a victory would be.

@Dulra

Are Hamas in the best position to argue for the Palestinian people though? If we think of this as ceasefire talks between two adversaries what are the two sides hoping to gain?

I would argue that Hamas may not be in the best position to negotiate.

This poll has been discussed on these threads before. The survey was conducted from Nov. 22 to Dec. 2 among 1,231 people in the West Bank and Gaza and had an error margin of 4 percentage points. In Gaza, poll workers conducted 481 in-person interviews during a weeklong cease-fire that ended Dec. 1. There hasn't been a poll since then.

At the same time, 44% in the West Bank said they supported Hamas, up from just 12% in September. In Gaza, the militants enjoyed 42% support, up slightly from 38% three months ago. So less than half of the 481 people in Gaza interviewed* *

I would argue that Hamas may not be in the best position to negotiate
Whether we like it or not Hamas are in power in Gaza. I don't think Hamas or Netanyahu are the best people to negotiate anything but we are where we are. I'm pretty sure the Palestinians are in no position to overthrow Hamas at the same time as trying to survive a conflict with Israel.

@Dulra

you see I still don't understand what Hamas want in terms of negotiation. I would think that there is a means to achieve a ceasefire which I presume everyone wants for the very valid reason you give that there is a high civilian death toll but it seems to be difficult to find.

I just don't see what Hamas want? Is it prisoner release? Free passage to a safe state to avoid prosecution of something else?

@mids2019 could you ask Mumsnet to change the thread title I think you must have missed out a word somewhere so it doesn't really make sense

According to the Intelligencer they wanted

Just after October 7, Hamas leaders declared three main objectives. The first was to capture Israeli soldiers in order to achieve a prisoner exchange. The second was to respond to attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank and to protect Al-Aqsa Mosque from settlers. The Hamas leaders, if you remember, claimed to have acted on behalf of Al-Aqsa, which is why the operation was called Al-Aqsa Flood. The third objective was putting the Palestinian cause at the center of international concerns and preventing the consolidation of regional agreements between Israel and Arab countries.

No idea whether their demands have changed since then

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2024/01/israel-hamas-war-what-does-hamas-actually-want-now.html

could it be because hamas are being sheltered in Gaza? Do you need reminding what hamas did in Israel on Oct 7th.