Why don't the Palestinians turn on Hamas?

[mids2019]

So it appears the remnants of Hamas are hunkered down in Raffah but is there not an opportunity for ordinary Palestinians to revolt against that leadership of at least think of another governing body? Even the Hamas fighters sitting in tunnels must know this is a suicide defence of their positions and no military victory is possible so why not save themselves and the people they allegedly fight for?

I just find it strange that we continue to view Hamas as some kind of functional governing entity when quite it is clearly not and we get announcements from the Hamas Health Ministry when I doubt that there are in reality very few ministries functioning in Gaza.

It may well be Palestinians aren't in a position to wrest control from their psychotic death cult leadership but will there be a point where the Palestinians can turn to alternative leaders to start a peace process?

@1dayatatime
Well the IDF is predicted to be responsible for the deaths of between 2-4% of the population by August ( based on numbers published in the British medical journal in February) so what would you expect to happen? A coup by the newly formed ”We love Israel party”?

@Kindatired

Exactly- that's the problem with trying to eliminate extremists through force as you can easily create an even more extreme replacement.

But on the other hand Hamas needs to go and doesn't give a crap about ordinary Gazans either. So how exactly can Hamas be removed from power without force?

Why don't Israelis turn against Netanyahu? They are in a position to do this lot more than the proposition in the OP!!!

If there was an expectation for the people of Palestine to turn on Hamas, then a better plan would have been to not starve them and help to create a safe environment for them to do this, by investing in the area, building relationships, ensuring their human rights and providing a life that promises hope and significance. Not by bombing them and well over half of their infrastructure to pieces. I imagine the majority of Palestinians are physically and mentally exhausted beyond anything that many people here can conceive of.

Surely you have seen the coverage of recent protests against Netanyahu in Israel. Also as a democracy Israelis have the choice to vote him out of power which is not an option for Gazans with Hamas.

How do they vote him out once he’s in power. Also , he’s been in power on/off since 1996 so whilst not Israelis like him a good part of the population must do or he’d not be for this long

The future palestine should be without Hamas and Israel making decisions or interfering

OK we have a ceasefire soon. I think 40 days is being put forward in the press and hostages will be released.

How do you go about setting up a sustainable peace? Hamas can't agree to a permanent peacefire as they are saying to their people their whole raison detre has now changed and they will commit to peaceful coexistence. I agree with a lot of posters in that a lot of Palestinians may not be in the best mood to give peace a chance.

It may be that even without Hamas the Palestinians will simply want a party that in some way will act to have some form of vengence. I hope I am not being pessimistic but that would seem like human nature.

It seems like there needs to be imposed leadership in Gaza but this would allow the investment needed from the richer Arab states to rebuild Gaza. The rebuilding costs will be significant and I saw one report that with the amount of unexploded ordnance just clearing rubble would take 17 years.

Without a leadership committed to peace will countries be prepared to invest in Gaza and would they be concerned about some of the huge amounts of cash needed being funnelled into arms?

@mids2019 i agree that a leadership committed to peace is essential and a tall order, but think a move away from Netanyahu and other right wing parties in Israel would signal to ordinary Palestinians that peace was a real possibility. I think Netanyahu is as big an obstacle to long term peace as Hamas.

Why do you expect other countries to pay for what Israel did to Gaza?

@ConnieCounter

I guess Gaza didn't instigate the conflict? Did the US pay to rebuild Hiroshima or was that through Japanese debt?

I mean no one is pursuing Russia currently?

@gloriagloria

Possibly. It looks like Netanyahu is ultimately in trouble.

He was in trouble way before october 7th. Many in Israel believe that he wanted the war to save his own skin. He has always said Syria was the Palestinian state, and that Palestinians didn't need Palestine- even since he was young in the 70s! (proven and on video- so don't report as false)

Sorry I don't understand your post. Are you saying that Gaza did instigate this? Not sure what points you're trying to make about Japan or Russia but they don't seem relevant to my question.

@mids2019 why should Arab countries pay for the rebuilding?

Why don’t the Palestinians turn on Hamas?

Because the majority of Palestinians perceive Hamas as being the only organisation that has their best interests at heart. They loath Israel, the US and most of the west and they also feel betrayed by the West Bank PA, Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia’s friends. The only allies the Palestinians see themselves as having are Iran, Syria and to a lesser extant Qatar.
And those who think that the Palestinians of Gaza will thank the Israelis for liberating them from Hamas are deeply misguided. I don’t recall the Iraqis being too grateful to the Americans for overthrowing Saddam, similarly the people of Libya. No people ever thank their invaders for overthrowing their leaders, no matter how despotic they may be.
And that is why Hamas, at least its administrative and governing arms, should still be in place after all this is over.
If Hamas were to be removed (difficult, if not impossible) there would be a power vacuum and internal civil war. But perhaps that what Netanyahu wants. If the Gazans are fighting amongst themselves, it takes the heat off Israel. Israel is certainly not disappointed with what’s been happening in Syria.

The unpalatable fact is that Hamas should remain and negotiate with Israel. I know that will stick in the craw of some people, but it’s the least worst option. As for the military arm of Hamas, disarming them and returning hostages will have to be part of the peace process. The PIJ and other factions will be another matter that will have to be dealt with.

The Israelis have a problem with Rafah. There are at least 3 Hamas brigades there, in amongst the million or so civilians. If they allow the civilians to leave, the militants will simply dissolve into the crowds that are leaving. The alternative is pummel the city, and that will be awful. Either way nothing positive is achieved.
My solution? Ceasefire immediately, Israel withdraw from Gaza and start negotiating towards anything that does not involve violence.

@Itoosurvive, I don't disagree on the need to negotiate but I doubt Hamas will be in a mood to do so and Israel is not going to trust an outfit that has consistently said and demonstrated that they want all Israelis dead.

We like to think of the Palestinians as one people, but there are a lot of different clans and groups in there. Hamas gets the most attention as it's the best equipped and funded but it's not the only one. If they go, some else just as anti-israel will be in charge, but might be a bit more pragmatic on the peace front. I think we can safely say there's going to be corruption on the reconstruction funds whatever happens.

@Itoosurvive your words Because the majority of Palestinians perceive Hamas as being the only organisation that has their best interests at heart......

How do you know this? When were they last elected democratically into power?

And Hamas are brutal bastards. I doubt many Palestinians even dare speak out against them.

We like to think of the Palestinians as one people, but there are a lot of different clans and groups in there.

doesn’t this sentence apply to any country?

I don't disagree on the need to negotiate but I doubt Hamas will be in a mood to do so.. @TheABC

I think Hamas are probably desperate for a ceasefire. They have been pounded for months and they currently have one of the best equipped and best trained armies in the world preparing to attack one of their last strongholds.

I would be very cautious about believing western narratives such as those that claim Israel has made an "extraordinarily generous offer" (Blinken). Ever since they began, there has been precious little information about what has been or is being offered in these ceasefire negotiations. We really don't have an accurate idea of which side is demanding what, which makes me very suspicious about the whole narrative of which side is preventing a cessation of hostilities.

Israel is not going to trust an outfit that has consistently said and demonstrated that they want all Israelis dead.

That is not strictly accurate, it is an "end to the Zionist project" that they seek, but I won't argue with you about their hated of everything Israel currently represents and the people that inhabit it.

However, what they say and what they can achieve are light years apart. Hamas present absolutely no threat to the existence of Israel. What they say is rhetoric and bluster to garner support amongst their people. What they can do is fire rockets, the vast majority of which are ineffectual and are little more than an expensive annoyance. In the grand scheme of things, inaccurate, home made rockets with a minimal payload are never going to bring down the state of Israel.
October 7 was a catastrophic failure of both intelligence and defence and could quite easily be prevented from happening again.

I think it's naive to believe that a "cleansing" of Hamas from Gaza will be the solution to all of Israel's problems in that area. It won't be.

The longer the violence goes on, the harder it will be to have any form of reconciliation.

Blinken also said Hamas could have stopped all this by surrendering so it’s hard to take what he says seriously. Although I don’t really understand who he means by Hamas? Does he mean the large catch all ‘Hamas’ used as a term to kill large swathes of people, or is he referring to a smaller group what are in charge? Either way, I couldn’t imagine they would ever be willing to surrender to a neighbour who has committed human rights abuses against Palestinians for decades. Funny eh doesn’t seem to have mentioned the idea that current Israeli government could end this by surrendering themselves, could at least advise them to step down.

I think the main teasons why Gazans are not turning against Hamas is that none of them have known any different in their whole life time, or their parents or even grandparents. They have been occupied, expelled, at war, occupied, at war, occupied, expelled yet again, at war......
For an eternity!
We cannot ask any himan in those circumstances to think straight and in the same lines we do. We would overthrow any ruler that uses us as disposable means, but they have been abused and put down for generations.
On the other hand, at present, they find themselves trapped between an armed group that has some governing powers over them (maybe they provide, and so control, health care, food, shelter and so on). And a heavy punishing army that has no qualms in attacking civilians.
It will not happen now.

They need to get back to serious peace talks and actions. And if the current rulers do not have what it takes to achieve a lasting peace (which of I am 100% sure they do not have it), then they need to step away and let others with a proper desire of peace come forward.
This will take years. It will not happen in months.
We need to put in heavy international pressure for a final peace setting in. No more using civilians on both sides of the border to pursuit their idiotic dreams. There are groups, both Israelis and Palestinians, who still in the midst of this advocate for a future together, along each other.
It is that people who they need in power. None of the current ones.

Good points @Itoosurvive.

I think it's naive to believe that a "cleansing" of Hamas from Gaza will be the solution to all of Israel's problems in that area. It won't be.

I don't see how Hamas can be fully cleansed from Gaza at all, given the way they are embedded. The only way to dismantle them is to remove the conditions that nourish them (a two state solution with regular elections). That's a pipe dream right now.

I expressed sceptism about Hamas' ceasefire as the main leadership is abroad and anyone left in Gaza knows there is a high likelihood of being indefinitely imprisoned or shot. Israel is not going to leave them to operate intact, even if they cancel the invasion.

However, you are right to caution against western narratives. We don’t hear enough from the other side.