Why don't the Palestinians turn on Hamas?

[mids2019]

So it appears the remnants of Hamas are hunkered down in Raffah but is there not an opportunity for ordinary Palestinians to revolt against that leadership of at least think of another governing body? Even the Hamas fighters sitting in tunnels must know this is a suicide defence of their positions and no military victory is possible so why not save themselves and the people they allegedly fight for?

I just find it strange that we continue to view Hamas as some kind of functional governing entity when quite it is clearly not and we get announcements from the Hamas Health Ministry when I doubt that there are in reality very few ministries functioning in Gaza.

It may well be Palestinians aren't in a position to wrest control from their psychotic death cult leadership but will there be a point where the Palestinians can turn to alternative leaders to start a peace process?

Yes, also "Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated." Obviously it's just a snapshot, but the testimonies of released hostages seem to suggest support for Hamas is strong.

I don't think any of us can know for sure how Palestinians view Hamas because I don't think they would be "free" to give an opinion especially at the moment. I had an issue with this poll when it was first linked on these threads because of the small sample size responding from Gaza and the fact that people had endured two to three months of bombings and displacement when it was conducted. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be thinking rationally in that situation.

Biden and Netanyahu discuss hostage and truce talks as Hamas says 'no major issues' with deal https://jrnl.ie/6366477

This sounds promising

From my contacts in the region I understand most Palestinians actively support Hamas. They voted them in and they support them.

And don't forget about the hostages that were dragged through the streets of Gaza- one of them already dead- there was appetite for that amongst the Palestinians.

When did they vote them in?

@Dulra

Hamas are obviously recognising the calls across the world for a ceasfire?

It would be great to see the hostages freed.

I suppose what happens after the ceasfire. To what extent does Israel withdraw from Gaza? If there is a pause in hostilities does Hamas suffer in that the media spotlight will be taken away from the middle east?

I think the problem for Hamas is that's it's support relies on some form of attack on Israelis in the future as what have Hamas achieved for its people during the last 6 months? Normally governments are judged on improvements in living standards and security so Hamas has failed there I would have thought.

Having some sort of ceasefire leading to a peace would mean Hamas offering an olive branch to Israel and vice versa. Would this be a peace both sides would consider? Would Hamas offer to not attack Israel in the future (??l.

Would the Palestinians feel they have lost so much they cannot accept peace as they feel it would be an unjust peace?

I think if there is a ceasefire you have to quickly look to international partners in the region moving in.

And people in Israel democratically elected a genocidal maniac and hold protests blocking aid from getting to starving people.

Nobody's perfect huh!

What Hamas wants most is to stay in power- they really don't give a shit about the suffering of ordinary Palestinians, indeed the more ordinary Gazans suffer the more the international pressure on Israel.

A ceasefire is their best chance of staying in power.

@ConnieCounter

ohthejoys21
And don't forget about the hostages that were dragged through the streets of Gaza- one of them already dead- there was appetite for that amongst the Palestinians.

"And people in Israel democratically elected a genocidal maniac and hold protests blocking aid from getting to starving people.

Nobody's perfect huh!"

I think you'll find that the celebrations of ordinary Gazans over the death of the 23 year old German girl Shani Louk including spitting on her body in the back of a pick up occurred before Israel retaliated.

Buy hey don't let that get in the way of your whataboutery.

Just in case you forget the images of this innocent woman here's a link to remind and give your head a wobble:

www.google.com/gasearch?q=gazans%20celebrate%20on%20shana%20louk&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5

Do you know whether this happened before or after the event you’re talking about?
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

Heinous, I agree. Same as deliberately denying starving people food.

@EasterIssland

Well if pointless whataboutery is what floats your boat then:

This celebration of the deaths of 7 Israelis in a synagogue is after 2014:

And this Palestinian celebration of the 9/11 attacks is definitely before 2014:

You're missing the point. The previous poster was making the tired old "Gazans voted for Hamas/Gazans are basically Hamas" points in a clumsy attempt at victim blaming.

So I made the point that the same can be done about anyone. Palestinians don't deserve what's happening to them in the same way Israelis didn't deserve the attack in October.

Exactly. You can’t make the point it’s Palestinians fault for choosing Hamas 25 years ago (only 40% of the current population could vote back then) when in 202x Israelis have voted a far right government. None of them deserves what is happening. And bad apples celebrating the deaths of the other ones are in both sides.

@ConnieCounter

"Palestinians don't deserve what's happening to them in the same way Israelis didn't deserve the attack in October."

On that I fully agree with you.

So if issue is not with the people but with the Netanyahu Government of Israel and the Hamas Government of Gaza then how can they both be removed from power?

In the case of Israel it is a democracy and the voters can either relect him or not.

But how can Hamas be removed from power?

I hope that when the Palestinians have their own state democracy can resume.

Whilst under occupation there will be no stability.

I don't think Palestinians were in a position to wrest control from Hamas even before all this horror started.

I have no idea how many are actually pro Hamas but I am certain Hamas waged a reign of fear and coercion.

Not sure how brave and militant I would be, even on a fully stomach, when staring down the barrel of a gun supplied by other terrorist organisations and undemocratic governments.

Totally agree. They will be mightily relieved when Hamas are defeated then and will have an opportunity to elect a different government.

Gazans have seen what happens when the IDF have a free hand in hospitals etc. and are learning of the mass graves and atrocities committed there. I would imagine at the moment those in Rafah at least see Hamas as all that is standing between them and a similar fate. What would turning from Hamas achieve? Do you think they feel confident that the Israelis will leave them alone? There is undoubtedly a time to ensure that Gazans have a viable alternative to Hamas and can turn their backs once and for all on their regime, but the time is not now and there needs to be a ceasefire and trust before this happens.

Hamas are utter shits.

Shits to Palestinians too.

" What would turning from Hamas achieve? "

Just wow.

I meant at this exact moment in time -I would imagine Gaza s are worried about sing seen as combatants in the eyes of Israel and wouldn’t see that turning against Hamas - who are armed while they are not- would afford them protection from the idf at this time. Of course in the future l, as said in my post, rejecting Hamas will be essential for lasting peace.

@keenforhelp

"Totally agree. They will be mightily relieved when Hamas are defeated then and will have an opportunity to elect a different government"

Well on the last polling Palestinian Islamic State was the most popular party in Gaza and they are more extreme than Hamas so there is every chance that the next Government in Gaza would be worse.