There are good reasons for avoiding talk of this conflict in schools

[mids2019]

Schools in England accused of closing down debate on Israel-Gaza conflict https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/schools-england-accused-closing-down-debate-israel-gaza-conflict?CMP=share_btn_url

If we wish pupils to discuss this conflict in schools it should be added to history lessons as part of modern history with an unbiased appraisal of the complex nature of the middle East especially post WW2. As say discussion about WW1 or the Napoleonic wars the conflict should be put into context of wider global geopolitical pressures with a nuanced analysis with importantly no bias.

What we don't want and I think the article below implies are discussions where pupils get to rant about 'evil Israel' and a school sanctioned display of Palestinian solidarity which some children may feel will allow them to express anti Semitic sentiment. I could easily see a passionate class pupil lead discussion leading to some pupils saying the problem couk d be solved as not having Israel in the first place and criticise Britian in its role in the formation of Israel. We have to avoid this.

Teachers are right to not want to allow discussion on class where tanti Semitic or anti Israel views could be be openly expressed with little sanction. Schools have quite rightly very severe policies on discrimination and racism and it would be easy for the pupils or even a teacher to overstep the mark in these areas.

We also have to consider the feelings of Jewish and Muslim children who may feel they may be targets for bullying as a result of these 'discussions'.

I fully support school decisions to not allow formal discussion of this topic currently though we do discuss the events of October 7th and the resultant war in my home with the aid of reputable media and valid wider historical context.

I think, as with all things, there's a time & place.

6th form Philosophy class or debating team, yes reasoned discussion would be ok. But stopped at the slightest sign of a religious rant.

Otherwise, no, I don't blame the teachers at all. Partly because of the threat of terrorist response and the inability of some groups to keep things in proportion but also because our schools have a curriculum and there is no spare time to cover it in a comprehensive manner.

My child goes to a religious school where the teachers are practicing and there are a lot of Muslim children, some have fled war themselves. There is also a German girl in class (Germany is a radical supporter of Israel). There have been discussions in class. Rather than ban it, her teacher has monitored it and from Day 1 made extremely clear that EVERYBODY is allowed their opinion and it's ok to think differently. What's absolutely unacceptable is to be disrespectful.

It has worked very well. It also defused it somewhat by normalising the topic and not making it a forbidden topic by banning it! The children are learning very valuable lessons about respectfully disagreeing. They respectfully disagree and then all go off and play in their normal groups at play time (the political division cuts across friendship groups).

Re your post though. I criticise the British government, the French government, the US government and the German government in my political discussions. I criticise the Egyptian, Saudi and Jordanian governments too. I'm not anti-Muslim, anti-Christian or anti-secular anti-EU, anti-British or anti-North American. If I criticise the Israeli government, I'm not anti-Jewish. A government is a political body.

It's also insulting and anti-Jewish to imply that Judaism supports what the political entity of Israel is doing to civilians under its occupation now. Judaism does not support this.

My avoidance of the term Semitic is not anti-Jewish either. It's for precision. Not all Semites are Jewish (far from it), just like not all Jewish people are Israeli or all Israelis support what is happening in their name (when they're actually told the truth). Accuracy is important in this.

@Meadowfinch .

Absolutely. The history of the middle East is extremely complex and worth of unbiased debate as part of any history curriculum. We routinely have debates about the causes of the world wars (which were horrific events in many ways) in history classes but there is a way of doing this.

If the government and schools wish to extend modern history curricula to include the middle East (resource allowing) so be it but it will take planning.

I think there is a danger about pupil lead 'debate' and I think the implication of this article is that should be a school sanctioned space to in effect allow pro Palestinian and by extension anti Israel protest. I fear any discussion of not extremely well regulated would lead to pupils sharing views for Tik Tok and the discussion would become toxic very rapidly.

@gestroopd

the lesson in question seems to have gone well but with such a conflict that arises passions it may be difficult to have 'respectful diagreement' . Israel and Gaza are not currently respectfully disagreeing about the status of the Palestinian people of prospective state currently. This is an active horrific war.

my dear is that some students do not wish a respectful debate which I approve of but wish there to be a space for Israel bashing. I agree with your point that not all Jews or Israelis agree with all the actions of their state but can you see it would be easy for pupils to conflate the Israeli state/Israel and the Jewish people as a whole of you are not careful with a diverse class?

I feel there is too much risk of bias creeping into such a discussion with toxic results.

@gestroopd .

I think also the discussion you mentioned did not have any Jewish children present if I am not incorrect? It would be interesting to see if the German girl if she supported the Israeli people in their conflict felt comfortable in reality.

Was the point of the discussion not to debate but to allow a release or diffusion of anger amongst Muslim pupils to allow them to gel the school 'had their back'.

OP, your concern about 'Israel bashing' should also cover a concern about 'Muslim bashing'. They are two sides of the same coin.

We had children chalking ‘Free Palestine’ all over the playground at the primary school I work at. I rubbed it off.

@Meadowfinch

Absoputely.

do you think that is what pupils would want though? A respectful debate without making Israel the 'bad guy' and no Islamaphobia. I absolutely agree that a debate should be held within those parameters but I don't think this is the form of discussion the article implies.

we could set strict parameter around a debate to prevent discrimination or hatred:

e.g.

Israel is a sovereign state and calls for its removal is anti Semitic

Wars are complex so there should be no bias towards either side in terms of aggressor and non agressor. (this is a school not a protest group)

both Jews and Muslims (and everyone else) should be respected

clear instruction about what constitutes hate crime

If we had such parameters which I think are reasonable would there really such a desire from pupils for a 'debate'?

@PostmanPatAlwaysRingsTwice

the concern would be any class debate on the subject could result in a verbal slogans i.e. the debate becomes an extension of protest into schools which is concerning.

In schools, students cannot "discuss" or "debate" without a sound level of knowledge and understanding. What they've found on tiktok or other internet sources does not constitute that. Where I teach, we have a lot of Muslim students.
When it first started we had a lot of them coming in with Palestinian flags painted on faces and hands. There was graffiti. Feelings ran high. No debate is possible in that heightened situation.
All we can say is that we deplore atrocities, it's a tragic situation and we're dealing with human beings here.
It has calmed down. It's our responsibility to have a calm, positive learning environment where all feel safe.

Exactly this. Twitter has reduced complex political situations to slogans. I've seen them daubed all over the place. It does not help.

Facilitating discussions and debates on heated current affairs topics in an age-appropriate and politically neutral way is a skill beyond being a good teacher. In my experience the staff who are often the most willing to get into those discussions are not the people I would want facilitating those discussions.

The colleagues I respected the most, and also the ones who were good at facilitating these discussions, we're also the ones who knew there was a time and a place. Most of the time it isn't in a subject lesson when there's curriculum content to be covered, nor is it when the topic is brought up in an impromptu way.

@Maireas

Absolutely. I think it is wrong to say teachers are stifling debate as well for many good reasons.

I imagine that if a teacher stood up in front of a class and said, 'OK let's have this debate but avoid hate speech or discrimination we cannot call Israel (and by extension it's armed forces) 'evil' or malign then a lot of pupils may disengage and the teacher may be portrayed in a sense as 'pro Israel'. We also have an issue that if a student showed support for Hamas as the governing body of the Hasan people they are effectively showing support for a proscribed terrorist organisation in a sanctioned school lesson.

no wonder teachers want to avoid. I think your approach very sensible.

@LolaSmiles

Perfect sense

Indeed, @mids2019 - we have to be politically neutral.
We also can't have a situation where some students feel unsafe. Therefore this decision seems to be the best one. We still have pro Palestinian graffiti, they still wear the flags on hands etc, but it's all a lot calmer.
I agree with @LolaSmiles - many teachers are just not equipped for this.
This is not stifling debate, it's asserting an appropriate learning atmosphere.

@Maireas

well said. Teachers ' lives are hard enough as it is.

there is so much potential for a teacher of pupil to put themselves in a compromising position that not having a school sanctioned discussion is eminently sensible.

for instance if an inflamed pupil mouthed 'it's a f&%ing gencoide' would you sanction that pupil e.g. a detention? What would the parent's reaction be? Has the teacher drawn themselves into a political argument which could lead to unsavoury consequences?

if a pupil called the Israeli cabinet 'wan+(rs' would the teacher allow this as an expression of feeling or again sanction the child. Would the sanction in itself portray the teacher as implicitly accepting the Israeli governments actions and therefore compromising political neutrality?

Could there be the prospect of teachers ultimately being employees of the British government be labelled as part of the 'system' to be challenged as the British state supplies arms to Israel so there will be a suspicion teachers are managing the debate from a biased position?

There are many reasons to avoid this kind of 'debate'.

Oh and the safety aspect. Absolutely crucial. Such debates could easily lead to pupils feeling unsafe (Jews and Muslims).

Why is it that in your first post, you don't seem concerned about students being exposed to Anti-Muslim or Anti-Palestine views?

This conflict presents a risk to Muslims around the world, just as for Jewish people. We should give children of both faiths equal consideration, not tack one group on at the end as an afterthought.

@Scirocco

I think the challenge is to have debates that do not portray Israel as the 'bad guy' and do not allow fostering of ill feeling toward s either Jews or Muslims (and by extension anyone).

if there instances of anti semitis m or Islamaphobia within a school they should robustly acted on within existing policies. I do not see how a debate about Gaza would do anything but heighten tensions and undermine school authority unfortunatly.

Same with the marches, it's reduced important debate to slogans, chanting, and intolerance for others just going about their business.

No way should schools facilitate a 'discussion' of this - it will end very poorly indeed. There is no way for the average teacher to do this without putting a foot very wrong and risking inflaming the situation.

Diplomats and professional historians get shouty and angry on this topic.

Ds school have not banned discussion on this topic. They frequently discuss current affairs/ what’s on the news, in fact that is encouraged. No hate speech allowed but the kids are allowed their own opinions. No one has been upset, and there hasn’t been any riots! It’s a small independent school, ds is year 10 and there’s about 50 kids in his year group. I like the fact that the school dont shy away from sensitive topics.

@Scirocco

I think anti Muslim sentiment should condemned quite rightly and schools do have policies in place obviously to protect everyone against racial discriminati on.

I think one of the many problems with hosting debates about Gaza in a school class is that there may be opportunities with inflamed passions for students to make utterances that may be construed as discriminatory or inciting hatred.

I will give an example.

a child says 'The Gazan conflict ultimately was due to the establishment of the modern state of Israel. Israel should not have been constituted and the current conflict could be solved by the removal of the Jewish state'. Now is this a legitimate viewpoint in an impassioned free debate of a clear breach of school policy against discrimination and hate speech (anti semitism)? I would very much feel the school would take a dim view and the child might be sanctioned severely (my daughter's have suspension and exclusion as possible consequences of racism or hate speech).

for balance of a child stated that the formation of Israel was legitimate and the rights of the Arab population at the time of its formation were secondary to that of the Jewish people i.e. Muslims were second class citizens that may be construed as anti Muslim sentiment and dealt with accordingly.

why leave teachers and pupils at risk of such scenarios is the interests of 'debate' which could potentially lead to discriminatory sentiment or an undermining of school disciplinary policy?

@MissyB1 - small independent school.
I think that's your answer.
If your child went to a non selective state school, where the largest minority group are Muslims, including those who have come from war zones, it's a different situation, as you will no doubt understand.

Absolutely this.