There are good reasons for avoiding talk of this conflict in schools

[mids2019]

Schools in England accused of closing down debate on Israel-Gaza conflict https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/schools-england-accused-closing-down-debate-israel-gaza-conflict?CMP=share_btn_url

If we wish pupils to discuss this conflict in schools it should be added to history lessons as part of modern history with an unbiased appraisal of the complex nature of the middle East especially post WW2. As say discussion about WW1 or the Napoleonic wars the conflict should be put into context of wider global geopolitical pressures with a nuanced analysis with importantly no bias.

What we don't want and I think the article below implies are discussions where pupils get to rant about 'evil Israel' and a school sanctioned display of Palestinian solidarity which some children may feel will allow them to express anti Semitic sentiment. I could easily see a passionate class pupil lead discussion leading to some pupils saying the problem couk d be solved as not having Israel in the first place and criticise Britian in its role in the formation of Israel. We have to avoid this.

Teachers are right to not want to allow discussion on class where tanti Semitic or anti Israel views could be be openly expressed with little sanction. Schools have quite rightly very severe policies on discrimination and racism and it would be easy for the pupils or even a teacher to overstep the mark in these areas.

We also have to consider the feelings of Jewish and Muslim children who may feel they may be targets for bullying as a result of these 'discussions'.

I fully support school decisions to not allow formal discussion of this topic currently though we do discuss the events of October 7th and the resultant war in my home with the aid of reputable media and valid wider historical context.

Can I ask to those advocating for no discussion or debate in schools on this topic - are there other topics that are also not OK to debate or would you say that this a uniquely dangerous/polarised issue?

So teachers should be able to say that starving children is bad. To make pupils feel they have value and are safe. Don't worry, this will never happen to you, international protocols will keep you safe even if the grown ups go to war.

But pupils should not be able to refer to the fact that the Isresli state is currently doing this because this might lead to criticism and bad feeling about the Israeli state. And this is not part of the curriculum and has no academic merit.

Take home - this could happen to you, your parents or your nationality or whatever could be deemed the enemy and then there are no bounds - if not now ...

@PocketSand

indeed we are lucky to live in the UK.

my point is that is self evident starving people is bad. A good teacher will make sure a child is educated enough to read say the BBC website where there is plenty of information about how international pressure is being brought in Israel. Reading the views of the UN and how for example US politics can be swayed is more valuable than a debate about something that is undebateable.

I don't think it is of value to have a group set up in school whose sole purpose is to criticise Israel or its military and that is what it appears people want - an expansion of protest into the school sphere.

There are those on this thread that imagine you can have a debate about the differences between Palestinians and Israelis where by education and recognizing other people's viewpoints you may get some enlightenment amongst students about the causes and means of cessation of this conflict.

there are others that think any debate such as this wrong as it is clear there is only one oppressive aggressor and the purpose of the 'debates' is simply to highlight Israel's response to October 7th and essentially just have a space to call out its actions.

you can't have both - maybe another reason teachers aren't queuing to pick this baton up.

@mids2019

you can't have both - maybe another reason teachers aren't queuing to pick this baton up.

Honestly we have enough going on trying to get through the curriculum & working on behaviour & mental health.

I work in a very diverse school & it's not an issue I would feel comfortable debating.

Teachers are supposed to remain politically neutral - well that's my understanding. So if you are expecting teachers to allow debates on issues it could cross a line.

@mids2019

I don't think a secondary school teacher will be able to reach a concerns view on the middle East when the world's best diplomats have failed for 40 years

Yes to this. It could go horribly wrong & teachers could be accused of being racist whichever view they support.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations

Do you think children should be educated about maintaining our strong relationships with Israel Which is our current policy? We must remember when considering such debate Israel is our friend and we have stood by then for many years. I think this may be an unpalatable truth to many that wish a Palestine - Israel discussion to be an avenue of admonishment of Israel in our schools.

If you feel it's important for your children to know what is happening in Gaza, you can have that conversation with them. Or, better still, why don't you go out there and give some practical help, if you feel so strongly about it. The expectations we're piling on teachers is ridiculous. It's not up to teachers to parent our children.

@converseandjeans .

I think that the fear. There was a pp who mentioned that a Muslim student was upset when a teacher mentioned the war as in her opinion insufficient regard was given to the Palestinian people. It would be easy for students to go home and say their teacher was anti Semitic or Islampahobic on the back of a single comment . It seems to be such a volatile subject it would take an extremely brave teacher to engage in these debates unless they were particularly political and if so should they be brining their politics into the classroom?

Absolutely agree with this.

Are you saying that the isresli government doesn't accept that starving children is bad and they need international pressure? Or that starving Palestinian children is somehow ok and that's why international pressure is needed for an accepted 'bad'.

And what is the lesson if they don't stop?

And you still want them to be seen as the good guys or at least neutrally?

Do you not see that Jewish people across the world will be harmed by the actions of the Isresli state?

@PocketSand

that is a viewpoint I would say is akin to protest and we are talking about discussions about this issue in the classroom. The point is that no matter what your feelings about getting aid into Gaza to have some sort of discussion in a classroom you need a point and counterpoint with as other posters suggest an education all framework to assist pupils in critical analysis and framing the debate. It seems a lot people simply wish discussion about Israel Palestine in the classroom to be an extension of criticism of Israel's prosecution of the war and this is not the purpose of school and I don't think many teachers will facilitate this.

As I said earlier you could educate children to write persuasive letters to MPs or give lessons on the liberty to protest peacefully in this country. Currently I think that is a better approach to having debates that would be at best divisive or at worse stimulate such feeling that someone gets hurt.

Yes I personally wasn't advocating for teachers to talk about this at school on a whole

Did we ever talk about Ukraine in school, held fundraisers, invited those displaced in the conflict? If yes, then why are we not doing the same for Palestine?

@Parkingt111
I agree the topic is just too divisive and could lead to accusations of staff and pupils having discriminatory views simply by voicing opinion on aspects of this conflict. I would avoid in schools.

It is a difficult one - I am Jewish and I worry because we are a very small minority and a lot of kids won't know anyone Jewish, and will, be easy for us to become villified and for kids to believe simplistic narratives they see online.

I think what Israel is doing is inexcusable and needs to stop but I also understand that for someone sitting totally outside the situation, it would be easy to feel 'Huh, religion is stupid, why do the Jews need a country anyway? Why can't they just pack up and go when it causes that many problems?' and in this day and I age I honestly understand why people might feel that way. But the reality of the situation is much more complex. Arguments about whether or not the Jews should have a state are rather moot - it is there, the question is how it handles itself and how we create a just solution for Palestinians without dismantling Israel, which I don't think can be the answer (and would be an act of vandalism as, for all its failings and faults, Israel is such an amazing country in many ways).

Indeed.

@Faraway93 .

Currently Gazans are governed by a proscribed terrorist organisation; might cause a few quibbles with school governers that one.

I actually think there are a number of options available to allow pupils to discuss, understand and explore what's going on in age-appropriate ways. Pupils may have a need to feel safe, to understand that, while scary things may have happened, the adults in their lives can tolerate discussing the scary things and can contain their expressed emotions. Secondary school pupils may also need a space to explore how they think and feel about things, opportunities to learn about different viewpoints, and to consider how they can contribute positively to the world around them.

If there are concerns about divisions between different faiths and cultures, probably the best way to tackle that is to learn more about those faiths and cultures. That's where a lot of interfaith work comes in, and there are lots of interfaith outreach projects that do things like going into schools to give talks or teaching sessions.

Pupils are going to think about, read about and probably talk about this, regardless of what a school 'permits'. It's everywhere they look. Shutting down opportunities for education and exploration isn't going to change that. It just shows them that adults can't tolerate it or contain their own feelings about it (which is so unhelpful for development), and takes away an opportunity for teachers to identify pupils who might need a little extra guidance or support.

There are quite a few Palestinians living right here in the UK.

@Echobelly

I agree there are questions about how Israel is prosecuting this war and governments share these concerns. I think there are ways and means of expressing personal concerns but I don't think allowing 'pile on' debates on Israel in schools is helpful. I think if unchecked the debate may lead to anti Semitic sentiment such as Israel not having a right to exist and if there was no Israel there would be no problem.

It is a hard enough topic to navigate as an adult without having class time devoted in essence I would imagine as criticism of Israel.

@mids2019 What is “hard to navigate” about the starvation and displacement of millions of people and the killing of 20k mothers and children?

@Scirocco

in theory what you say is fine but in your heart of hearts do you think this is a time of peace and understanding? I think we do well in RE lessons to educate our young people about all the major faiths without having to introduce the topic of a vexatious intractable conflict into the mix.

I think what you are suggesting is perhaps school counselling for those that are particularly effected and I think there is an argument for this but I am against discussions about Gaza as I don't think the discussions will lead to mutual understanding but descend into antagonistic war of words; passions are running high.

Yeah, I fear it's very easy for there to be pile-ons and for people to end up absorbing antisemitism.

It's also difficult because a lot of people are going 'Oh, but not all Jews are Zionists' and a) most Jews are and b) it's not healthy to set up a 'Zionist Jews bad, other Jews good', and Zionism can mean so many different things* *from just (and mostly) 'Jews should have a homeland' to unpleasant types who think Palestinians should just be pummeled until they give up and go away (which isn't going to happen). After all, the Palestinians are basically the descendents of the Jews who stayed, something no one talks about enough.

@Faraway93

put yourself in a position of having to guide a pupil discussion on the Gaza conflict from a neutral persepctive. How would you start? How would you guide the discussion so all views were heard and debat ed without pre conceived bias.

difficult isn't it....Now you know what a teacher must feel

@mids2019

My teachers managed fine with debates, discussions and lessons on politically sensitive current affairs when I was at school. My relatives and friends who are teachers are competent in managing the same. I see no reason why there shouldn't be a space for pupils who want to discuss and learn about a major world event, to do so, provided the staff available are competent to facilitate it.