There are good reasons for avoiding talk of this conflict in schools

[mids2019]

Schools in England accused of closing down debate on Israel-Gaza conflict https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/schools-england-accused-closing-down-debate-israel-gaza-conflict?CMP=share_btn_url

If we wish pupils to discuss this conflict in schools it should be added to history lessons as part of modern history with an unbiased appraisal of the complex nature of the middle East especially post WW2. As say discussion about WW1 or the Napoleonic wars the conflict should be put into context of wider global geopolitical pressures with a nuanced analysis with importantly no bias.

What we don't want and I think the article below implies are discussions where pupils get to rant about 'evil Israel' and a school sanctioned display of Palestinian solidarity which some children may feel will allow them to express anti Semitic sentiment. I could easily see a passionate class pupil lead discussion leading to some pupils saying the problem couk d be solved as not having Israel in the first place and criticise Britian in its role in the formation of Israel. We have to avoid this.

Teachers are right to not want to allow discussion on class where tanti Semitic or anti Israel views could be be openly expressed with little sanction. Schools have quite rightly very severe policies on discrimination and racism and it would be easy for the pupils or even a teacher to overstep the mark in these areas.

We also have to consider the feelings of Jewish and Muslim children who may feel they may be targets for bullying as a result of these 'discussions'.

I fully support school decisions to not allow formal discussion of this topic currently though we do discuss the events of October 7th and the resultant war in my home with the aid of reputable media and valid wider historical context.

@Desertrose2023 De

there are many who will agree with you however how do you postulate that view in a classroom without fostering animosity against Israel and Jews by extension. Is that helpful in a diverse school and society and does it lead to all pupils feeling safe.

I mentioned earlier that for a debate there must be an assumption that we can't and shouldn't label Israel as malign so how do you square the circle? I think ultimately for the reasons many pp have expressed we keep this away from formal schooling.

I think you missed my initial point.

You are talking about wanting to prevent debates because you think that those debates would become vehicles for anti-Israel sentiment.

That presupposes intent and opportunity on the part of '"those that support Palestine".

Yet again, your posts come across as having a starting point of viewing Palestine and people concerned about the situation in Gaza as being the problem.

Surely, a more neutral starting point would be to express concerns for all students and teachers, not to start with the assumption of trouble coming from one 'side' of the issue, and then tack on 'of course Islamophobia is bad too' at the end.

I do think that that there are numerous complex political situations involving the oppression and deaths of innocents and civilians, and that many are not as keen to debate, protest and challenge if it’s not Palestinian v Israeli.
And that teachers in Europe have been threatened, harassed endangered and killed. Including decapitation, for taking a stand on things seen as fundamentally right to a specific religion.

All of the "students are not knowledgeable enough to debate/the conflict needs to be viewed within a wider historical context/this has become about slogans" is only purposed to silence any form of criticism towards Israel.
At the height of Ukraine/Russia conflict, school children were encouraged to come in dressed in blue/yellow, posters were made, school collections, the narrative very much about how Russia are monsters. But when it comes to Palestine, we're all too thick to really comprehend the "wider historical context?".
The reality is that Israel cannot come of of this without being "the bad guy". Nearly 50,000 deaths, 30k of them being children and they've said they have no intention of stopping. Forced starvation, how many hundreds of thousands have been mutilated for life, and "the wider historical context" is that Israel has been doing this for decades.
So tragic that Palestinian lives mean nothing 😢

@mids2019 I think your complete focus on debates becoming anti Israel and pro Palestine highlights the real reason for you wanting to stifle debate in the classroom.

If tensions are running so high in schools I think it is important to address that and allow for a space to discuss the issues, to challenge misinformation and to give a perspective based on facts as opposed to tictoc. Otherwise it becomes the elephant in the room and can add to the tensions in the school.

There are good reasons to facilitate informed discussion of this conflict in schools.

Many children will be aware of elements of what is happening, through social media, news reports discussions at home, lived experience, etc. Children have questions, opinions, concerns. Facilitating a safe space for age-appropriate discussion can be a positive step towards helping children understand what is happening, understand other perspectives and experiences, develop empathy and feel safe.

Schools are there to educate children with facts...

Facts are facts, regardless of what spin is put on them.

I support this approach

I used to be a history and politics teacher and we taught the Arab Israeli conflict but that was before the current war. You have to be so careful how you approach teaching it and really inform yourself of the complexities. Where you encounter real issues is when the teachers or students discussing the issue are ill informed or repeating what they hear elsewhere. You also have to be mindful of the make up of the class as it can just be an echo chamber of one side of a debate.

@Scirocco .

If we take the assumption of no preconceived bias for these debates what would the acceptable outcome be?

If there is an outcome of the was any sort of support for Israel or an indication that pupils thought Israel's reaction proportionate wouldn't there be accusations of Islamaphobia and the class in its views somehow endorsing a 'genocide" as some refer to it?

If little Johnny puts his hand up and claims the Gazans had it coming to them and the bombs should keep dropping would you allow this view or possibly sanction the child for discriminatory language under school policy?

If on the other hand the debate outcome was that Israel has reacted disproportionately what would the pupils say should happen?

I think along with other pp that to allow a free debate in a school setting is recipe for inflaming opinion and promoting not reducing any community tensions as well as putting a schools authority under strain.

I don't think it is my assumption of preconceived views about these debates but rather a realistic view that those who claim schools are stifling debate actually have strong conditions on the conflict and it's about promoting their combinations rather than engaging in academic debate.

I agree that Israeli behaviour is indefensible and I don’t really think it should be characterised as a debate. But ultimately, passions are running high, and it will invariably be carried beyond the classroom.

I’m not sure I would trust Government guidance on this topic not to attempt to excuse it also. They would just open the floor for discussion inevitably a child, then says something inappropriate and all of a sudden there’s a Prevent referral instead of the discussion that was intended to happen.

If we debate one, we should be debating all. And the background to the conflicts, religious and political. But to do that, the skills of debating need to be taught from early years onwards, not just the incessant restating of one pov, but listening, adapting, recognising when the other is making a valid point and marshalling rational arguments against it.
It is a dying art, in politics, in schools and amongst the general public both child and adult. Look at the consequences of trying to debate Women’s rights in the light of the Trans movement.
How would you protect the teachers from abuse, harassment in and out of school, accusations of bias and physical harm? Because that is the probable consequence of bringing political hot potatoes into school.
Most authorities ban teachers from wearing any symbols showing affiliation in school. From political parties to anti-apartheid and Greenpeace to anti-hunting to Amnesty International. Neutrality is required.

That's a very blinkered version of what happens in schools. Schools are an extension of the community they are located in whatever is happening in that local community whether positive or negative will work its way into the school. Whether it's a local sports team doing well or an incident that has stirred up racial tensions. You can't shut the school gate and hope the issue doesn't infiltrate into the school because they do. If space is not there to discuss it, it will be a like a pressure cooker waiting to go off. Each school knows their students, their backgrounds, their families, the community they're growing up in. Schools will know what needs to happen to support and protect students and whether debate needs to happen or not. I think people are giving young people a disservice here they are well able to cope with a discussion around this topic

Would it not depend on the age group and which lessons? When I was in 6th form we debated the Israel/Palestine situation in debate class and despite strong opposing views it was fine. Primary school not so much. However I do find it slightly hypocritical that when the Ukraine/Russia war first started my DD's primary school were quite vocal with Ukraine = very good, Russia = very bad and they even had a fundraising day for Ukraine where the children were encouraged to wear blue and yellow. So I think this concept should apply to all conflicts.

Edited to add a word

Rather than pick and choose which ones are acceptable to talk about and which are not.

This is ridiculous. It’s on a par with maintaining ‘neutrality’ in 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. Russia is a direct threat to the U.K., in a way that neither Israel not Palestine are. It’s perfectly correct that children are taught that the Russian state is an enemy of the U.K.

And have you ever met a single UK-based Russian who supported the Russian state? Trust me, Russians in the U.K. don’t get offended when Brits criticise Russia - they don’t think we go far enough!

@Katy265

if a Jewish child were to approach you upset because they had a relative killed on October 7th then you would respond sympathetically.

I don't think neutrality means not being allowed by death and destruction but accepting that wars are awful and it in many situations deter mining an aggressor and non aggressor especially historically is diffcu lt.

for instance a natural extension of you historical analysis is that Israel should not have been formed as a nation state and we would never rightly state this.

teaching about such a complex conflict is difficult at best but to get and have 'debates' when there is such inflamed opinion I don't think is responsible. To teach children the context of the Gazan conflict from the Balfour treaty through the Yo m Kipur war is challenging and lengthy and the needs the right environment. The history of the middle East is more conducive to an academic curriculum lead history lesson than to as his 'debates'.

There are definitely kids from muslim families in ds school, lots of Faiths and cultures actually, and kids not born in the UK. Some families are only in our town for 3 or 5 years. Ds best friend is Columbian they are here for 5 years.

General conclusion was that collective punishment is wrong and that’s what the majority of kids felt was happening.

That's not the issue.
I think that if you have an issue with the policy of schools being politically neutral, then that's a whole other debate.

I agree with this completely. I think what Israel is doing now has gone way beyond any kind of moral complexity. It is abhorrent and I have no issue saying that.

I also struggle with the idea that children in Gaza are not safe from being murdered and starved, but children in the UK have to be safe from hearing about that and discussing it?

I actually don't think schools are politically neutral, a lot of the time.

There are many things which happen in educational settings which have political associations.

Life is not politically neutral, so it's unrealistic to expect that our educational establishments will be. Rather than adherence to the government's current definition of 'neutrality', perhaps it would be more helpful for children to learn how to evaluate, debate and recognise their own and others' biases.