Fainting and seizures in 7 year old

[30daysonly]

Hi all.

In Nov 15 dd collapsed. I thought she had fainted although she wasn't pale/clammy. It took her a few minutes to fully come round and recover. Took her to GP.

In August 16 she collapsed again, this time she was fitting for around 10 seconds and conscious throughout. She complained of a pain in her head before collapsing. Took her to GP again, referred for bloods and ECG. All came back normal except urea was high on bloods - 8.4. Dr wrote to GP saying it was just fainting.

Last week dd collapsed again, same as the last episode, sharp head pain just before but the fitting was more severe and it took around 15 minutes for her to recover. Called 111 who sent an ambulance and was seen in a&e. All her observations were normal, then when she had her bloods taken she fainted soon after. Classic pale, grey, sweaty faint followed by another seizure.

Bloods came back high for urea again, so she has been referred for repeat bloods, an EEG and kidney ultrasound.

Dd drinks ok so I don't think she is dehydrated, but have been keeping an eye on her fluids since. Does anybody have any advice/experience/knowledge of these symptoms as I am very worried about her.

Thanks

Bumping just in case

What do you mean by "fitting"? What did she actually do? Just that you say that she was "fitting...and conscious throughout" - vast majority of types of fits that would make you fall to the ground, people lose consciousness, so very hard to visualise what you mean.

have you filmed her?
if not try to if it happens again.

Nocool - she falls to the ground and shakes quite violently, her eyes were open and she was making eye contact with me but unable to speak. Her mouth seemed to be locked open and she was making a groaning noise. Her arms were bent outwards and I couldn't bend them back in - the shaking was causing her arm to scrape against her drawers and I was trying to move her arm away.

Sorry if that isn't useful, the staff in a&e used the term fitting to describe it to the Dr afterwards.

Red - I haven't as it happened so fast, her dr has asked that too. Now I know the head pain is a warning sign I've told dd to tell me straight away if she gets it again

Those are seizures. Sometimes the eyes are open and looking at you but they are not concious. Crying out or groaning also common .
Dont try to move stiffened limbs just speak calmly and reassure until she recovers. Any seizure that lasts 5 mins or more merits an ambulance. Try and film it for drs and dont be fobbed off. Has she been referred to an epilepsy specialist ?
I have a child with epilepsy and he has the same type of stiffening of limbs ( tonic seizures). The shaking is a clonic seizure so both together is a tonic clonic one (darned stupid name for a scary event imho)
I found it helpful to watch videos of children having seizures on line because it helped to make it less scary but also showed me subtle signs to look for that i might otherwise miss.
Bless you it is not nice so hope you get some answers and specialist help soon .

You don't have to lose consciousness to have a seizure, and your eyes don't have to be closed to have lost consciousness. The key is really whether she was aware of her surroundings and whether she was able to control her body. It sounds like she wasn't, so she had lost consciousness. The thing with seizures is that they will look different depending on what part of the brain is involved, so somebody saying 'seizures aren't like that' is really saying 'the seizures I'm familiar with aren't like that'.

Have you been given a plan if she has any more seizures in the meantime?

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like she may be losing consciousness then. I will definitely watch some videos.

The next steps are more bloods, EEG and kidney ultrasound then back to see the consultant to discuss the results of those 3 tests. I wasn't given any advice on what to do if it happens again.

For now, I have told dd to sit down as soon as she feels the pain, just to prevent her from banging her head as she falls.

Is there a trigger? Could re reflex anoxic episodes- akin to extreme fainting. Child collapses but is usually conscious by time they hit floor but showing signs of low BP. May be jerking and looking like seizures but it isn't epileptiform and is rarely a serious issue. They grow out of them but it's can be quite dramatic when they do pass out.
Trigger can be pain, cold, hormones, stress but may not be obvious cause. It's an overreaction by the body to a minor trigger that the body responds to as if it were serious trauma.

A thing called a valsalver manoeuvre can avert an incident. Google will show but it's basically pinching nose and forcing breath out through closed lips to build a pressure that boosts blood pressure and stops fainting. Alternatively lie down and legs in air or conversely running to get pulse up. Headache can be first sign of slightly low oxygen levels as episode starts.

Thanks crumbs. No obvious trigger. 3 of the 4 times have been around 8am, about half hour after breakfast, nothing unusual happening just getting ready for school. The 4th was shortly after having blood taken.

Google reflex anoxic attacks. Having blood taken and hunger can trigger.

I hope the a&e staff mentioned a the few things she should avoid until the seizures are fully investigated (no swimming, no tub baths).

No out, nothing like that. She's been having baths! I have been sitting with her though.

And thanks crumbs I will look that up.

Has she been given rescue meds to take to school? Any staff trained to deal with seizures?

Hi random. No I haven't been given any meds or advice.

I've informed the school of what has happened and told them to call me and 111/999 if it happens at school!

Does she have any worries about school? I ask as 3 of the fits were as she was getting ready to go.

Could be stress induced somehow?

That has crossed my mind Wild. But the first 3 were all months apart and nothing going on at school currently. There was a period of falling out with her best friend earlier this year when she was worrying about school and no seizures or anything during that period.

There are over 40 different types of seizure and not all involve the "stereotypical" falling to the ground unconscious shaking and loosing control of your bowel/bladder

www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/facts-and-statistics

@30daysonly as others have suggested please records any seizures you can. My own DS had seizures which were relatively 'mild' for years and years then out of the blue they changed - similar to what you have described.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Dd had another blood test today, came back high for urea again so looks like there is something going on with her kidneys. Not sure if its related as yet.

Hi all.

Dd has now had the ultrasound and EEG. We are seeing the consultant in 3 weeks.

She is suffering from severe headaches almost daily but no further seizires. I took her to the gp last week who only advised waiting for the consultant app or A&E if the headaches include vomiting.

Still very worried as the headaches are a new symptom. Not sure whether to try and expedite the consultant app.

I would. Has she had an MRI with dye?

I think if it's possible to see the consultant sooner, I would try for an earlier appointment.
It may be worth contacting the consultant's secretary- details can often be found on the hospital website. Some consultants also post their direct email.
Given that the headaches are a new symptom, it may be possible to fit your daughter in sooner. You never know, it could be worth a try.
It must be very worrying for you daughter and you. I hope the situation improves for you both.

I agree, if possible see if you can get her seen quicker, and ask about ct/MRI scans with contrast.