Have you had a toddler who didn’t point, language delayed, but turned out all right ?

[Injackane]

Asking for my 16 months old son, who doesn’t point or wave, has only two words (“eight” and “ko” - for Bingo), will do things like brush teeth with us, takes turns to push the car down the ramp, return the ball, loves playgroups with other kids, lift hands to be picked up, doesn’t babble although is vocal like aaaaaaa or ayayayaya and occasional dadada. He understands most of the basic commands, like “give”, “Jackson’s turn”, “no”, “stop”, “go go go”

He simply doesn’t like to imitate sounds or gestures, like we are bothering him. He even sometimes pushes me away, like “go away, don’t bother me”. Loves spinning wheels or opening-closing doors, but only for 2 minutes and he can be distracted easily. Loves lying on a floor, watching the toys spin. Bizarre.

General doctor and speech therapist think it is not autism, but that he is language delayed. We have a twin sister who is a super-imitator, and super-pointer, aggressively points to everything she wants so the difference is obvious.

Tell me please you had a toddler who turned out fine, being similar.

I have a sixteen (about to be seventeen) month old who has no words at all yet. She does point, but often appears to be pointing at nothing. I’m not worried about her as she seems to be social and “switched on” in other ways… sounds like the same could be true for your son?

She’s my second child - my first had quite a few words by now so I do understand that she is “behind”.

It’s kind of similar except that my son doesn’t point, but yes, as long as both are “switched on”, engage and seek a social interaction, that usually means no autism. Maybe they have something else, though. Our specialists said that nobody knows, in most cases, what is the cause of speech or language delays.

Is there a particular reason you are worried? No words and no pointing us actually not uncommon at 16 months. My first child has excellent language skills (now 3.5) and he never pointed as a baby at all.

I have similar concerns about my 15mo DS
he doesn’t point yet and likes to spin car wheels always flip things upside down also hand flaps sometimes occasionally sorts things into little piles

BUT he has lots of positives as in talking and sharing things with me and lots of other gestures ,etc etc so I can’t quite work out if I’m worried or not .. the only that bother me really is the lack of pointing although he can point . he points to things in books and points to body parts nose mouth head eyes

I’m worried about the lack of wish to imitate. Has your child imitate the gesture?

@Raeleigh24 , our sons sound so similar , apart from mine doesn’t pile things and yours does gestures. What gestures does he do?

Autism is at the back of my mind a lot, given he doesn’t really have a wish to imitate gestures or sounds, and he rarely brings toys to us to show us.

@Injackane he does almost every other gesture clap , wave , arms up to be picked up blow kisses , don’t know kind of gesture .he does all the actions to songs like wheels on the bus , sleeping bunnies and he’s amazing imitating very interactive little soul and he says about 17 words he’s learning new ones everyday and I’m starting to see some imaginary play like feeding teddies and pretending a dvd is a steering wheel saying rummmmrumm lol so that’s why I can’t work out if I’m worried or not and some of things he do is just toddler stuff like flapping and spinning wheels but then again he doesn’t do it for long minutes or seconds at a time .. my sister came over last night with her boys 2yo and a 17mo and they both tipped the ride along car over and span the wheels maybe it’s just a boy thing ? - but over all it’s the lack of pointing that bothers me the most because I know how important it is but I did read somewhere that it’s not considered late until 18 months .

@Raeleigh24 your little one is fine. He dies all the imitation and pretend play, and those are two major indicators did autism.
If he brings you toys to show you, then you can ignore the lack of pointing. One study said around 20% never poing.

My son only does clapping and hi5, nothing else. The whole “Wheels on the bus” song, he just smiles and enjoys it, looks at us, but he doesn’t imitate gestures. When my hubby does “doors on the bus go open and shut”, he comes to him and moves hubby’s arms to open them and shut them , but he doesn’t do it himself.

I wish someone can tell me whether that’s normal.

@Injackane sounds like he’s still interacting with you though , he’s looking or listening to wheels on the bus and looking back at you to see if your enjoying the same thing as him so that’s joint attention surly?

Pretend play with my DS is still very minimal at the moment but I’m buying him a play kitchen for Christmas to try encourage more

His joint attention is good if we initiate it. He is also NOT resistant to distraction, which is good.

On a negative side, first, he understands gestures but won’t produce them (apart from exciting clapping).
Secondly, he shares his joy in a weird way. He never points to objects and never turns his head back and forth between me and the object that interests him. The head turning counts by paediatricians as equal as pointing in initiating the “sharing of experiences with others”.

As you can see, your son is safe, you truly don’t need to worry.

I was literally about to start a thread and saw this! 17 month old DS won't point and doesn't respond to his name either
Babbles a lot and says a few words, brings me toys to play with / open things / brings me iPad to turn on...can see a duck and go quack quack , waves and claps and just about walks BUT I still am so worried with the lack of pointing. The name thing I'm trying to explain away with is confusing him with 2 languages (trying to ensure he is bilingual)

Thanks for starting the thread OP! Glad your doc thinks not autism. I was wondering whether to ring specialists after he is 18 months !

@MamaBear878 bringing toys to you is a great joint attention. The fact he babbles and imitates animals (that officially counts as a word), is also very good sign.

waving back is imitation. Does he do any other imitation?

For not responding to name, try to sing his name or to use excited whisper. Sound silly, but therapist recommended. Do that when no TV and no other toys around, so take him to another room. Then call him 5 times , try singing or whisper. Make sure he can’t see your lips or face. If it works, if he turns towards you, he is fine.

Hi OP, my DD didn't point till 17.5months and had like 3 words. She had a language explosion at 20months and by 2 had 50 words. She's a perfectly chatty 3 year old now. She had other gestures though x

@Injackane thank you so much! Will try that out for name!

Thank you, @eliayd That is reassuring.
We only have two gestures, clapping and hi 5, and few times he imitated up and down.

Hi @Injackane my 20 month old has almost same symptoms as yours, is very social with kids his age but doesn’t imitate, doesn’t point fingers, no response to name, spins wheels and just one gesture- clapping. Not sure what it is

Hi @Injackane I am no expert on autism - but I was worried about my son and have read up a lot on it, your sons age is prob too early to do an assessment - so I’d keep an eye on things from now up to two years.

Somethings you said that I have read can indicate autism - lack of speech (but as you say speech delay is often caused by something other than autism), no pointing, no joint attention, no imitating, liking spinning wheels (that repetitive motion - though loads of children without autism enjoy this), using you/your partners hands as tools rather than doing it himself (such as open and close for the song).

however there are other things that he is doing like being social, and following instructions.

if it’s any comfort my son is 21 months and I would say at your sons age he was barely pointing, and I would say had limited shared interest - though he did bring toys (but often because he wanted us to do something with them, which doesn’t really count as shared interest), and didn’t imitate a lot, though he did have quite a few words. In the last 3 months this has come along loads, with a bit of encouragement from us - he is now pointing to things he wants and naming them (such as drink, juice, snack, toast,bath, bed) He looks at us most the time when we are engaging with him (his eye contact wasn’t great before) He answers questions with a yes. He points and names things in a book and looks to check we have seen them, when he achieves stuff he looks at us and goes “yay” wanting us to share in his celebration - he still isn’t putting many two words together but has so many single words I’ve lost count. He likes talking along with YakaDee if you are in the UK. He smiles and laughs when we do, he is starting to recognise when we are sad…. This has all been 19/20 months plus.

I still have a couple of things I’m concerned about as he often does things on his terms (I give him a simple instruction and he ignores it, but he will do it sometimes so I think he has just unfortunately developed my stubborn streak), he is quite shy and won’t often look strangers in the eye until he has been round them a while, and he has had single words for so long but not developing to joining two words that much (unless he learnt it as two words e.g. all gone, sit down which he says)

in my reading what I see loads is firstly autism is a spectrum and some kids can be on the spectrum but with the right support can go on to lead full independent lives, and even those who are far on the spectrum are still your children who you will continue to love with all your heart. My cousin’s son is far on the autism spectrum but it was quite clear from early on, with no eye contact, no responding to name, very little interaction. He is 19 now and the most amazing man, it is difficult for my cousin at times as he has to have things in a certain order and a certain routine otherwise he gets very upset (e.g. they can’t listen to one song on an album, they have to listen to the whole thing in order) he often hums and sings to self soothe and can get overwhelmed easily - however - with the right support he has his own job that he can travel to on public transport on his own and he is a very talented and incredible musician and all round delightful man.

sorry for the long message - I just thought it may help x

UPDATE - 2 MONTHS LATER

Firsr, thanks to all who replied. I appreciate your experiences and it was good to hear how boys develop at their own pace.
Since writing this post, our son has considerably progressed. He is about 18 months now, has 6 words, imitates 12 gestures (including waving, up/down,…), brings toys to us to play with him, imitates considerable amount of our actions like feeding a baby doll, sometimes points to show us things like cars he likes on some painting (just started doing that), overall he is engaged with us. There are still some things he doesn’t do, like if we point at something and say “Look”, he will only follow sometimes if the thing is close by and obvious.

i don’t think he has autism. His MChat score is now close to zero. Speech therapist says that it is not important whether child meets the deadlines, but whether there is an ongoing progress.

It looks like our boy just has a delay and I have to wait it out. We work with him a lot trying to stimulate his progress, speech therapist gives us tasks to practice at home.

Okay, so I am not sure what I have to say. My 21-month-old doesn't say anything. I have heard him say mama baba and no, but he doesn't say it to address me or his father. He says it when he is babbling. He doesn't imitate actions, like he never tries to imitate actions, like sometimes if I do. Throw a ball at him, and he would throw it back, not exactly to me but somewhere, and expect me to pick it up and throw it back to him, or he would hide, begin the curtain, and get happy when I say pee ka boo. Other than that, he doesn't play with me at all; he plays on his own. With other kids, he doesn't play with them. He does try to take his or their toys from them, but if they don't give them to him in a few seconds, he would walk away and start doing something else. He wouldn't play with them, but he likes to play on his own in their company. Sometimes he would try to hold their hand to walk with them, nothing else. He doesn't respond to his name. 95% of the time, the few times I have noticed him responding to his name, is like today he was playing on the terrace and his father came and called his name. I saw that he looked at the window to see where the sound came from and then walked towards the gate. He walks on his toes. I have seen him with his full foot down a few times, but the moments he realises it, he starts tip-toe walking. He has some similar type of games: running from a sofa to the bed, climbing on the sofa and walking over it, running around the house, throwing bottles caps on the floor, and kicking them, like football reading, or he may be turning book pages and pressing toy buttons, which makes sound, kicking football, that's all. He does make eye contact, and he would run if you turned a TV on, like he would run towards the TV even if he was doing something. He is very active; he can run around for hours and would excitedly shout while playing and running. He doesn't sit in one place; it's hard to make him sit; he just wants to run around. He is okay at gatherings; he would play there. Does this all sound like autism?? If you think it even slightly sounds like someone you know with autism, tell me so that I can convince my husband to get the diagnosis, as he isn't listening to me

@Mal1989 this is quite an old thread - it may be worth starting your own discussion. Having spent too long looking for answers in mumsnet - when it comes to this kind of thing you just have to go to with your gut - 50% of people will tell you their child had these symptoms and they were just a little delayed but came on and others had autism. It’s so hard to tell. Does he go nursery/child care and have they raised any concerns? Have you tried speaking to a GP. Often it’s quite difficult to get an autism diagnosis at your sons age and would probably be referred to a speech therapist in the first instance.

@Mal1989 sorry you're going through the stress of it all. HVs generally say to wait until 27 months to do the 2 year review and see if he has made any improvements by then. But you could ask for one earlier if you are worried - have you been in touch with them? I contacted them regarding the name thing and they referred my son to an audiologist. They found out that he had glue ear! So early investigation might be helpful even just to put your mind at rest.

Hey I just met the psychologist recently she has asked me to get a hearing test done along with that she said we should start the sessions and delay the assessment as she thinks it's 50 50.. It could be either environmental or he might be on spectrum.. But she said even if you get the assessment done they will send you back and refer to sessions and ask you to come back when he turns 3 for final assessment.. So she mentioned that it's better to start the sessions.

@Mal1989 What does the doctor mean by “environmental “?