My seven year old son has been excluded for the third time.

[Flip]

I haven't been on mumsnet for sometime but something strange happened this afternoon. My sons school called to inform me they were excluding him and while I was on the phone I received an e-mail from the mumsnet news. So I took it as a sign and apologies in advance for unloading.

I don't know where to begin so I'll start with today and work backwards. The call came from the school secretary who was trying to reach dh. She seemed unwilling to tell me what had happened as directly after the Christmas Holidays I refused to be involved in any further incidents. Eventually she told me that ds1 was excluded for using a racist word. She informed me that I didn't have to collect him as they were keeping him as an internal exclusion. Which meant that he was in solitary confinement in the heads study for want of a better description. She informed me that the head master would make himself available to dh Friday morning to discuss what had happened. So I contacted dh and got through to him straight away so she couldn't have tried very hard and I explained what little I knew of what had happened. He informed me he was to busy to come home from work and deal with this and when I gave him a list of things to ask when he called school he made it as plain as possible that I would have to take responcibility if I wanted my questions answered.

Am I being unreasonable to want to know tonight before I pick him up what it is he's actually said? I want to know who it was witnessed by and when it happened. As you can see from the fact that this is his third exclusion, he's definitley no angel and I'm not defending him. But I am starting to feel that he's treated different to the other kids.

One parent wrote a letter of complaint about ds1 over Christmas about an incident I happened to witness. She was the reason I got called into school the first day back after the holidays. But earlier this week, her child punched a child to the floor in the cloakroom and then kicked him in the stomach and groin. It was witnessed by half a dozen children and myself. He wasn't told of or punished as he left shortly after because it was the end of the day. If that had been my son, he'd have been excluded there and then.

So I feel as if I've gone from thinking the worst in him to wanting to defend him. If he has used a racist word it isn't acceptable and he needs to think about why it isn't. But I doubt they would have excluded any other child for the same offence.

I really don't know how to handle this and I've only got forty minutes before I have to go and get him.

Can anyone help me?

oh flip, sorry to hear whats been going on, i'm afraid i have no useful thoughts at the moment, lets hope someone out there has. thoughts are with you.

I can't help sorry but I can't imagine what sort of racist word would get a child immediately excluded.

why was he excluded before?

I do think sometimes children are wrongly labelled the 'troublemaker'. especially if the school have spoken to you before and the other children find out about it, they use the 'troublemaker' as a get out clause for themselves. IMO

i am not saying your son is a TM. sorry probably the wrong word to use.

some anomalies: how do you know what punitive measures were taken against this other child? you have no idea what happens in the school when you are not there- you are not privy to what staff are privy to so you cannot judge incidents involving other children fairly.

Your son will tell you what he said - don't expect to be given info by the school over the phone, it just won't happen. If an exclusion is taking place everything will be said with witnesses in the room and full notation kept.

Also: what do you mean when you say "I refused to be involved in any further incidents" - this isn't clear.

I think that you need to re-involve yourself, and yuor dh and jointly go to the school, perhaps if the school doesnt see a"joined up" sticking together with both parents they may make less effort. Also perhaps yuor dh knows that if your ?s arent answered he will get it in the neck from you as well as the school. I know it is hard but dont think of the previous incidents take this one on merit, and try to remain calm (difficult i know)

best of luck

my son said a racist word and i was phoned from school about it.

the full story included the other kid saying and doing some pretty nasty stuff to my ds.

the racist word your son said is in some kind of context. you need to get this context before you make further decisions.

my approach was to write tot he school and explain that whilst i was in no way defending my sons behaviour and ihad dealt with it severely at home, that it was in the wider context of x y z and therefore the other child should warrent a punishment also. I suggested to them to contact the mother of the other child and perhaps we could meet on school grounds - in the office to discuss the incident.

the school took on board what i said puished them both fairly and contacted the mother
the other mother then refused to come in and discuss the situation.

Thanks for your support.

Donnie, you obviously have good relations with schools if you feel that positivley about their course of action. I however feel very let down by my sons school.

To answer an earlier post - 1st exclusion for kicking a child in the head. 2nd for hitting a teacher in the face. Both times he was sent home from school and we were informed it was a formal exclusion. However after writing a formal letter to the governors of the school requesting to see my sons personal file I discovered that wasn't the case. To anyone looking at his file who doesn't know him he seems like any other. There were no exclusion reports. There were no incident reports despite being called into school on average once a fortnight. The only thing in his file of use was his latest IBP which was three months out of date and he'd achieved none of his goals.

When I challenged the head master he told me it was an over sight with regard to the IBP and it has since been rectified. He also said that he would have the reports on his computer and would get me copies. The following day he called to say that he had not one single report relating to my son. He was very red faced about it and I am unsure at the moment about whether to put in a formal complaint. They have finally decided to have him statemented after four years at the school but there is no evidence. None of our meetings have ever been documented by school or witnessed.

When I refused to be involved in any other incidents it was because he called me the first day back after the holidays and asked me to go in because he'd received a letter of complaint about my son. I refused because my son doesn't see me as an authority in his life and treats me like I'm something he's stood in. I'd just been through two weeks of hell having him off school and was very vulnerable. So I refused to get involved but none the less two weeks later got access to his file. You can't truly give up on them no matter how much you want to.

Blimey.

I do find that rather shocking.

I think you should perhaps get some family counselling.

robbosmum - I understand what you're saying regarding a united front but unfortunatley when I'm there my dh can't get a word in because I have such strong opinions about our son. Of course the flip side is that when he takes control of an incident I don't feel he's covered everything. He's very passive which is out of character for him. I'm usually the passive one. But when it comes to ds1 I just get so angry with how much school have let him down.

custardo - I am keeping an open mind until I have the facts. But my son is proffesional liar and I will get a different version everytime I ask the question so he doesn't help his own case. Which is why I desperatley want info from school before I tackle him.

Has your child been formally suspended in writing? How long is the suspension for?
What is the school doing to make sure that your child recieves an education? (Your child has a fundermental right to an education however attrocious his behaviour is. His teachers need to set and mark work while he is excluded.)

Informal suspensions are against the law. A school has to show that they are making an effort to include your son if he is having problems. (Ie, an IEP, extra supervision to help manage his behaviour) Has the school refered your son to an educational pschylogist?

The data protection act gives the parents the right to see your child's records, but not any records relating to other children.

My son was threatened with permament exclusion from pre school at 2 years and 8 months. (He was deaf, but the pre school teacher thought he was disobiedent) An educational establishment which recieves state funding has to log instances of bad behaviour. Our community paediatrian intervened and stopped the pre school from expelling my son.

Usually when young children misbehave there is a reason. (Ie. deafness, child can't cope with the work, bad teaching, ADHD) The school needs to involve outside people if they can't get to the bottom of your son's problems.

I think parents can appeal against an exclusion that is more than 5 days, if the school has not worked to include the child.

I think that you need to talk to the school about your son's behaviour.

What happened to the other child, and what punishment he has or didn't have isn't really the thing you should be concentrating on IMHO.

Your son has been excluded twice for violence at quite a young age, in my experience exclusion isn't that common in children of this age. You need to work with the school to try to sort out what is causing this anger and violent behaviour, possibly getting him some anger managment councelling.

This probelm will not go away on its own. You have my every sympathy in what must be a very stressful situation, but now is not the time to withdraw, now is the time to work with the school to sort out yours son's issues. They may well recomend councelling for him.

Does he have a Individual Education Plan to help to deal with his behavioural issues? Are the school (and the family) sticking to it?

We have family support workers who come to the house. They've even managed to find a male support worker for ds1 in the hope that he can have more luck. Don't think I haven't done anything. He's been seen at CAMHS since he was three years old and I've had counselling and he's had counselling. Social services have tried to help. Behaviour support have been involved. If there's an organisation out there I haven't tried then they don't exist. I've done parenting courses and attended support groups. But deep down inside of me I can't get past the thought that my son is a sociopath.

if yuor son lies you yuor dh and your son need to meet with the techers, if you find his behaviour unacceptable at times, the techers also will. You need to take some deep breaths and let your dh get a word in, your ds will see you arguing and is behavr suddenly isnt the foucus of attention anymore

Sorry, cross posted.

I am so sorry that you are so worried and upset by this situation.

But patterns of behavior can be changed. Does he have an IEP? Do you have a diagnosis of any underlying condition that is 'driving' this behaviour?

Flip, I do remember you posting about your son over a period of some years I am so sorry things are no better despite your best efforts. And to find the school have not been documenting previous incidents leading to exclusion is spectacularly unhelpful.
Has he not had a dx of some sort from CAMHS in all this time then? You did mention something before about a personality disorder possibly?
No advice, just huge sympathy. You must be at the end of your tether by now.

He has an IEP and he's had help in school one on one which worked so they took it away due to lack of funding. How can they expect funding when they wouldn't go through the statementing process?

He never sees me and dh argue because we don't. It's a wonder our relationship has survived but it's as strong as ever despite the problems we have with ds1.

Oh God, how awful.

Can you push them to statement him? It sounds as if your son needs the 1 to 1.

So you feel that your son might do better in a school that specialises in behavioural special needs? (I know this can be a difficult decision to make, and I also know that such places can be very hard to get)

if your son is in your words a professinal liar.

you have no authority.

he hits teachers in the face

in abscence of any medical condition. i think youneed help.

He had an ADOS which concluding he wasn't autistic despite launching a chair at the shrink and then climbing under my chair and sucking his thumb.

He has very low self esteem and thinks that the world is out to get him. He's very depressed and constantly mentions killing himself. The other week he hid in his wardrobe for an hour and we had all the neighbours out looking for him because we couldn't find him. I was on the brink of calling the police when he reappeared but he just said he didn't think anyone would care if he was dead.

Is your GP useful?

Have you seen the EBSS?

Has he been refered to a child psyciatrist, other than the assesment?

Flip, you sound as though you are rejecting your son to a certain extent. He appears to be very angry, hitting a teacher at the age of 7 is a clear indication of this. You both need help of some description.