OI! Homophobes! Over here!

[ooojimaflip]

I'm genuinly interested in why you object to homosexuality, and everytime I ask on the other thread it gets lost in the general hubbub.

So - name change if you want, but please tell me what your objections are?

If it's because it's not natural or against biology, please expand your answer to include why you care about that.

Show your working for extra credit.

n.b. Don't bother if it's a religous justification, you'll need to find someone who believes in that kind of stuff to debate with as I'll just dismiss that out of hand. If you are a homopohbic religous person with a secular objection then please go ahead.

sorry should qualify - safe when done properly.

Errrrr.... many hetrosexual couples ejoy anal sex...

Riven - here here. Why do folks get so preocupied and moralistic about folks rubbing their bodies together. Always seemed odd to me, that its anybody elese business or that which sex a person enjoys sex with should in anyway shape their personality.

I think a lot of so called 'gay culture' gives homosexual people a less than aceeptable reputation. lok at stuff on TV, the gay men are always mincing about and/or promiscuous. Not very real is it?

Personally I honestly tink nything goes though personally I find having anonmous sex with many partners totally alien to me and that, again personally, sex goes hand in hand with monogomy. Mind you, that might change is I lost DH ....

Lways thought I was bisexula as being with male or female seemed posible. Am now with DH and relieved at not having to deal with all the crap gay folks get.

As far a religious thought goes, can;t imagine that Jesus, Mohammad, Budha etc were homophobes. Bet Ghandi wasn't. And if they were, they kept their mouths closed and got on with their own lives rather than judging others.

My DD will be enoucouraged to form lovng relatioships and to stay safe and happy when having sex. No more, now less.

Personally, I think that anyone who has enough time on their hands to give a toss about anyone elses sexual preferences (as long as they are legal) is a twat.

Show us yer bum!

OK - I am still not sure I am completly clear on what the positions of those who oppose homosexuality are, but there seem to be several strands.

1. The argument from religon. I have nothing to say about this.

2. The argument from nature. This is all the points about animal behavior, what bits fit where, evolutionary success etc. Bits have been debunked by various people, but the whole argument seems spurious unless someone explains why what is natural should in any way be a guide to behaviour. If I've missed a someone giving a position on this please point me to it.

3. The argument from 'ick'. This is peoples gut feelings. Not liking to think about sexual behaviours that you would not like to participate in etc. This is fair enough - no one has to like everything. It doesn't seem to me to be a good enough reason to stop other people doing things.

4. The argument from risk. Aspects of Homosexual culture involve high risk behaviour, drugs, sex etc. I think there is a point to answer here, in that I think it's probably true that a higher proportion of gay people than straight people behave in this way. Whether a higher % of people behaving in this way are Gay I doubt though. But risky behaviour and homosexuality are not congruent, so it seems that this objection really need to be about behaviour rather than sexuality, so we really end up with a classical libertarian v communitarian argument.

5. The argument from worth to the community. This was only raised by one person who then pissed off. This is a complex question, and one that if we were to get into it would ineviatably spiral off into bankers v doleys etc. If anyone seriously wants to argue that gay people contribute less than other groups we probably need a new thread . Even if we were to conclude this was true, we need to decide this is a bad thing so your back to libertarian v communitarian again.

6. The argument from discomfort. Gay people have more difficult lives than straight people, therefore it is better to encourage people to be straight. I'm just not sure this is true at all, and if it is, a lot of it is related to being gay in a straight society.

If anyone feels I've misrepresented them or missed something - speak up

The human body wasn't designed at all...we evolved, why do people keep saying designed? By who, for what? Very irritating......

And from a biological point of view, it makes perfect sense that some people are gay, and that some people are infertile. read up about inclusive fitness, natural population limiting etc etc.

I still have questions for the Christians quoting sins and scripture that no-one will answer. Explain to us why exactly the rules against gays are gospel when so many other rules are so easily discarded? I truly would like an honest answer to this one.....

Cos you is filthy pervs and second class and want to get your paedo hands on our innocent kiddies, innit?

Show us yer bum!

point 5)

homosexuals are usually very well educated & have good jobs earning ££££.. they're usually law abiding, but if they do commit a crime it will be something nice and non-violent like fiddling expenses..

.... plus gay men always smell very nice.

therefore, they contribute alot to society..

You should be so lucky, Miss.

It amazes me that people sit around and actually find the time and ebergy to care what other people get up to in bed. I'm curious, do those who keep muttering about anal sex sit on the bus and imagine how the other passengers get their rocks off?

On a more serious note, I have a friend who grew up in a very religious household. When he told them he was gay, his kindly, christian mother told him that she wished she'd had a miscarraige, as he was an abomination against God. No one will ever convince me that 'them gays are just wrong, innit' is a valid, humane opinion. I was at school and college with this person, and his coming out was agony for him. No one would choose to alienate themselves from their family because they fancied a certain lifestyle. Pretending was killing him. He considered suicide. Oh, and he came out over 15 years ago, at the grand age of 17. His parents still lead a church, and still don't talk to him. He is now in a very happy civil partnership. I am a christian, and I believe that God makes us who we are.

daftpunk - I definitley think smelling nice is important.

Lenin...

listen to me....

i'm sick of talking about homosexuals...christmas is coming and i want to look on threads about cooking turkey...

but i want you to understand something...

homophobia has nothing to do with insecurity and repressed sexual urges...if i wanted to have sex with women i could go out tonight and shag 6 of them...it wouldn't be difficult....

i don't care what you do in bed LG and i don't care who you're having sex with....just do it privately.

the problem for people like me is we don't see it as natural, and we don't want it forced on our children.....do what you like and do who you like...just don't expect me to except it...

it's not all about you...

"
If we were all gay what would happen? Oh yes, forgot - we'd die out in a generation.

What a clever gene that is!"

Sexuality and reproduction are not mutualy excusive - clever, intelligently evolved humans have found plenty of ways around that!

Anyway, what sort of eugenics are you suggesting? That any person who doesn't spontaneously reproduce is a pointless human who deserves less rights and can be chucked on the scrap heap of humanity? Should homosexual people be denied equal rights because they don't reprodiuce through heterosexual intercourse? because unless that is what you are saying, why is it relevant, this reproduction point?

I might be talking out of my arse (it's a useful trick), but I think I read something somewhere about homosexuality possibly having an evolutionary function. Something to do with how long it takes to raise a human, and how many people it takes. I might have read it on here somewhere. The idea seemed to be that gay people exist for the same reason that we don't just snuff it as soon as we pass child bearing age, in order to have many adults to help raise young. Or something.

I'll wait for the hysterical laughter, and comments about my orating anus.

Oh, good! I'm glad I hadn't just invented it.

I like being called 'chicken', it makes me feel cute

daftpunk you just don't get it do you?
you want to stop other people living their lives like you do, openly, proudly, full members of society. You want us to hide if we are different because you don't agree with it?

WHO CARES WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT? People like you make me sick, as if you have any right to agree or not with other peoples lives and relationships. You are afraid of difference, you are a bigoted fool, you have proved it over and over again.

if you don't want your children to learn about normal, natural, perfectly legal different lifestyles you might want to take them somewhere that fits your mentality a bit better. Like Afghanistan.

pooexplosions i will come back and try and answer your question later. Off to a meeting thingy just now.... fun fun....