To not believe there is any such condition as....

[BunnyLebowski]

...Oppositional Defiance Disorder??

This is the "disorder" that the mother of this 12 year old brat is claiming he has. He has stolen cars, set houses on fires, hospitalised another child by beating him to a pulp and thrown rocks at passers-by.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195221/Dont-son-Asbo-hes-got-ODD-thats-oppositional-defiant-disord er.html

Now I know it's The Daily Wail and so on it's own isn't a reliable source but the mum was just on GMTV defending her son's behaviour and blaming it on his "condition".

So rather than accept that she's dragged up a violent, disrespectful criminal she can attribute all his behaviour to this lovely catch-all title for "cheeky f*ckeritis". How convenient.

it's one of the adhd types.

do you not recognise that either?

the thing is, because kids who have odd are routinely called adhd now, the ones who just have true 'attentive' disorders aren't recognised. tis quite sad.

a friend was told her child couldn't have add because he didn't throw chairs around at school. no, that's the odd bit...

tis quite interesting.

agree totally with OP

odd for 'oppsoitional defiant disorder' btw - just reread my posts and it looks like i'm just saying 'odd'... must learn to capitalise at some point...

he does sound like a lovely boy though

i'd love to chat with the paed who diagnosed him.

It's the over diagnosis of ADHD issue again.

By the way, parents of ADHD diagnosed children can you answer a question I've had for some time?

If you were to describe a difference between true ADHD and popular excuse for bad behaviour ADHD what would you say?

speak to the paed lol. ours says if ritalin works, then it's 'true' adhd as it corrects a genuine chemical imbalance. if it doesn't, it's 'something else'...

but i haven't got an adhd child, so i can't really comment.

I must admit, it does seem like a ludicrous term for bad behaviour but my friend's DD was diagnosed with it. She has SN, little speech and very restricted mobility so won't be out mugging old ladies any time soon

Sounds like it may be real but like ADHD, often used an an excuse for poor parenting. Makes it doubly awful really if you happen to have a child with an actual problem.

No of course I recognise ADHD but believe it is grossly overdiagnosed (and overmedicalised) and this isn't fair on the kids who genuinely have it.

It's absolutely ridiculous to have a disorder that excuses these little brats from taking responsibility for their actions and that excuses their parents from any culpability in how their kid behaves.

Makes me very very angry.

The thing is we as a society are absolutely obsessed with diagnoses which mean absolutely nothing. To say that someone has ADHD if they respond to ritalin is not particularly helpfu. Nothing has one singular cause, people are a product of their genes, their family environment and their non-family environment (the last of these is a lot more important than many give it credit for).

I would hazard a guess that most diagnosed with ODD have come from a less than perfect family background, most. But that doesn't mean that their parents are terrible, it means that there have been experiences in their life in combination with a predisposition that have caused them to behave that way. There seems to be this feeling that unless the condition has a physiological cause then it's not real; that is nonsense. A child who has no respect for society and its superiors is not just going to snap out of it when punished, they need to be helped to completely change their world view.

In many cases ODD seems to be combined with learning difficulties to some degree and the child feels entirely disenfranchised and separate from society and sees no reason to follow its rules. These are complex problems and a cynical "they're just bad kids" view doesn't help anyone.

From Wiki:

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:
Note: Consider a criterion met only if the behavior occurs more frequently than is typically observed in individuals of comparable age and developmental level.

1. often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful or vindictive

Actually I really don't see how this could apply to friend's DD at all

Sometimes children are just naughty, they don't need a label or a diagnosis just a little more love, routine and discipline. Children without disorders who are given one just to explain/excuse behaviour make all the children with disorders have a much more difficult time of it.

It is a label for extremely badly behaved children whose parents have done a terrible job of bringing up! An excuse for their awful behaviour and a reason as to why it could not possibly be the parents fault as to why their child is rude, badly behaved, aggressive and violent.

very good post nelly.

And at the little brat comments- he is a child fgs and clearly a very troubled one,diagnosis or not.

but there are also parents who have worked very hard at parenting, and then only one of their children turns out to display this kind of behaviour, for reasons that noone can understand

not saying this is the norm, but it does happen, always has

Agree with nellynaemates - good post nelly.

i did wonder if mine had opp def dis when they were little the first time i told my 9 month old NO dont climb the stairs he thought it was the funniest thing hed ever heard and laughed and laughed at me

think like with every psychiatric condition it can be given a 'label' and be made a legitimate condtion or it can just be seen as a condtion of human -everyone is unique with unique problems

personally i think it must have something to do with the childs upbringing and personality

but calling it oppositional defiance disorder does seem like and easy way out or an excuse

in th'olden days it would have prob been solved by a good beating !

damnhay, I think by the time most paeds would agree to diagnosing ODD we are probably looking at something rather more serious that the normal opposition of a toddler

also suspect that a lot of the time there is something in the child's background- but not necessarily a lack of beatings

if you study history at all, you will come across an awful lot of people who clearly did not have the opposition beaten out of them- a fair few may have had it beaten into them

I think whether or not the 12yo has ODD, he needs to know this is not acceptable and his mother has to take responsibility for managing his behaviour so it doesn't affect others. But he also needs treatment.

"No of course I recognise ADHD but believe it is grossly overdiagnosed (and overmedicalised) and this isn't fair on the kids who genuinely have it."

Bunny, are you a doctor? How do you know ADHD is "grossly overdiagnosed" and "overmedicalised". Have you investigated every case.

You don't know anything about the circumstances of this family.

reading wiki sounds like my ds1he ticks all the critera(although im not dumb enough to think oh ive read about it,thats as good as diagnoses).weve having senco meetings at the moment.if his behaviour meens im a bad parent then so be it but how comes dd and ds1 are easy,happy,well behaved children(most the most!).

yes i agree people seem eager to label children but i think if a child really does have a condition like that ,that they need help not people saying 'oh fgs hes just a brat' etc.so sometimes a label or name for whats happening helps.

Crikey that list describes me!