Right… pronouns

[Pronounsworkemail]

NC for this. Well, my friend has no issues with people putting pronouns on their emails. But my friend has joined a new work place and was sent a suggested email signature which includes pronoun.

Friend has no issues others doing so on their email, there is inclusivity and all, but are people being forced to put pronouns on their work email signature. What does the law say on this? Friend is stuck and has not set up the signature yet. Where is choice in all this?

So use her/his like we always used to when we didn't know a person's sex?
For the amount of times we are required to discuss people with unisex names who's sex is unknown to us and the person we are referencing them to, its not onerous to do that.
Much less fuss than everyone displaying pronouns. Which isn't just a neutral utilitarian act, it's a political statement which some people are uncomfortable with.

You haven’t read my actual post. I’ve literally just said I would use ‘their’. And I literally just said I don’t agree with demanding to know pronouns. I was simply disagreeing with an earlier poster who said you can always just use the name.

Of course we can use her/his as you suggest! You’re literally agreeing with me ie you’re using pronouns of some sort. My point is you sometimes need some sort of pronoun, not just the name. Please do me the courtesy of reading my post properly.

PollyBell · Today 01:48
it is all nonsense but if people want to identify as a word that is up to them but leave me alone

And the same applies to being forced to choose a title.

This.

There's a lot of substantiated research which suggests that emails from identifiable women are treated less seriously etc etc than from identifiable men. It's the ingrained sexism we're all socialised into.

I think they and their causes issues too. If for example Sam works within a team, are the ideas s/he emailed the ideas of everyone in the team (their) or just Sam's own?

Well done for picking out something to disagree with me on. Ok, his/her then, my point is pronouns are useful, you can’t always just use names, but I don’t agree with requiring people to state their pronouns. I think you and I can probably leave it there.

No need to take things personally. I'm not deliberately looking for something to disagree with you about. I'm just responding to comments about pronoun use with my opinions. Sorry if I've touched a nerve in some way.

One other point on this - you seem very concerned about the poor people assuming I'm male rather than the bigger issue around that assumption. But why only sex? Should I also add a suffix to save these poor (highly educated, mostly white) mostly men the embarrassment of revealing their assumption that I'm white?

If not why not?

That’s an issue with the whole title thing in general. I’ve always thought we should scrap Miss and Mrs entirely and all just be Ms. Ms and Mr - sorted.

As for pronouns, I always eye roll at those who include it. I’m an academic and have found very few academics do it but admin / support staff do.

Ask HR if you can donate your pronouns to charity ? They are very valuable to some.

LOL as far as I know they have non binario and non binaria!!! Just shows how daft it is!!!

🤯

Both my kids have names that can be used for the other sex, and my name is only one letter away from a male name so I'm frequently addressed by the male name. I've never heard my kids complain - and I'd never complain either if someone gets my sex wrong. Most times it doesn't matter. It's better than getting my whole name wrong which has happened frequently. Anyway, I'd walk on hot coals before I'd use pronouns! It doesn't just say Oh I'll make this easier, it signifies that you actually believe in the gender nonsense that destroys women's rights. Are you happy doing that?

I wouldn't bother with pronouns but equally wouldn't care if an employer had a corporate policy to use them. Their house, their rules. What's the point of making a fuss about it?

No, they cannot force this. I don't do it. No need, so it's just a virtue signal.

We should just get rid of gendered pronouns. It should not matter at all what sex the person is. Even less important is whether someone is a Mrs, miss, or Ms, marital status is off no importance most of the time

Does it really matter if someone is a Mr, mrs, mx, Ms etc? Just have one personal pronoun.

Disagree. Gendered pronouns are often really helpful in reducing ambiguity in speech. Just like plural/singular is a helpful distinction. Both make it clearer who's who in a sentence.
Also, just getting rid of parts of speech isn't really how language works. It evolves but it artificial attempts to engineer it don't tend to work well.
I agree titles aren't especially useful in most situations these days. That's actually a good example of language evolving as titles are used far less these days (compared to 50 years ago). These things happen organically.

I'd not thought about reducing ambiguity. You've convinced me about the pronouns.

I'm standing firm on the titles though

Does it matter OP? I mean, really. There are better hills to die on. If it makes some people more accepted, and stops potential embarrassment due to using incorrect pronouns, surely it can only be positive.

Its a non-existent problem confected to justify the suffix. I can't say I ever found it a problem to be regularly misgendered when people assumed I was male - quite the contrary in fact. Pushing suffixes onto titles disadvantages women.

We already have all we need in the existing grammar structure. He, She, They singular where sex is unknown, They plural for a team. All that is required is for the existing language options to be used.

Should I also add a suffix to save people the embarrassment of assuming I'm white? If not why not?

I've never been embarrassed by people assuming I was male (a regular occurrence at one time), I've no interest in saving the blushes of those who make such assumptions.

I honestly don't see it as a positive that the 99% of the population whose pronouns are obvious are being compelled to pretend that if they didn't state their preferred ones, there is a risk people would 'misgender' them. It feels disingenuous and patronising. Typically people who want to be assumed to be the opposite sex make this obvious with their presentation and choice of name and don't need everyone to make a big fuss pretending everyone's sex is unknown unless we state we are a he or a she.

My pronouns are I and Me. Anyone who insists on anything else is an arsehole!