Right… pronouns

[Pronounsworkemail]

NC for this. Well, my friend has no issues with people putting pronouns on their emails. But my friend has joined a new work place and was sent a suggested email signature which includes pronoun.

Friend has no issues others doing so on their email, there is inclusivity and all, but are people being forced to put pronouns on their work email signature. What does the law say on this? Friend is stuck and has not set up the signature yet. Where is choice in all this?

At my work it's not expected but some people do it. Probably about 10% or so I would guess. I've always given my view if it comes up in discussion that I don't want to advertise that I'm female in my emails as I don't want to invite sex-related biases 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's probably an easier argument for me as I have a gender neutral name.

Yeah, if I were Kieron I would happily let everyone think I was a man. Plenty of evidence that it would be in her interests.

I’ve been nodding along reading your post. I personally like the idea of all adult women being addressed with the full word for Mrs - Mistress - which used to have the meaning of a woman of seniority or authority but has unfortunately since been downgraded to its current meaning, often in relation to an affair partner, ie “she’s his mistress”. I was thinking about this recently when I learned that Spinster used to mean a woman who was financially independent because she could sell her spun yarn and earn her own money.

Both originally words for women which are derived from their professional accomplishments and both have been reduced over the centuries to indicate their flipping marital status 🙄

There's definitely an age divide in my workplace. Most of the under 35s have pronouns in email signatures. The rest of us don't!

Your workplace sounds ageist and non-inclusive.

Our work tried to push it. I refused. Some use it it, but most that started to have removed it within the last 3 years.

i too have a gender neutral name, id rather leave it there

It's not about knowing their sex.

It's as the PP explained it's helpful to know how to refer to someone, so if you are talking about Stevie is - do ask how is she is getting on, or how is he getting on or would you prefer to refer to everyone as they?

I'm fine if people add pronouns or not. It's 😁 a choice but I can see they are helpful and not just for those who may be trans/non-binary.

If I don't know if Stevie is male or female I would say "How is Stevie getting on?" or indeed use "they" which is the correct pronoun grammatically for a person whose sex you don't (yet) know. Other than that, it makes no odds as to whether Stevie is male or female in most job settings.

What if they’re not “out” at work? Either they put the pronouns which feel “wrong” to them, or they are forced to out themselves.

Much better to just let those who want to include them, do so, and everyone else not.

But why write “Pronouns: she/her”? Why not just use a sex-based honorific?

Writing pronouns in that weird performative way, using both object and subject unnecessarily) is a signal of belief in the gender ideology quasi-religion.

Our template has space for all sorts of things (professional letters, academic letters, etc.). You don’t have to use them, but there is a space for them if you want to.

I wonder why the convention is to give subject and object pronouns. Surely if you've already announced you'd like to be referred to as 'she', everyone knows they'll also need to use 'her' as the object pronoun. Why not also list possessive and reflexive pronouns while we're at it?

What a lovely friend you are to spend a few tedious hours going over very basic workplace admin. Surely it would be better for her to check with her line manager, she’d get quicker, more accurate answers, and insights into the workplace culture 🤷‍♀️

I agree. I think I subconsciously communicate slightly differently with men as opposed to how I do with women. I'm a bit more wary of men (due to a lifetime, like many of us woman, of inadvertently 'leading them on' 🙄)! What I mean is, I would communicate in a more open and warm way with fellow women.

I don't see a need for pronouns on emails, as we can usually tell from the name - but in cases like Alex / Sam / Ashley etc then yes it could be useful. Also in cross-cultural situations, like your Dutch man. This is nothing to do with anyone being trans.

It’s suggested not mandatory.

They probably mean the rest of the signature not the pronoun bit. For example we must have Welsh and English as it’s a legal requirement in our field but pronouns are optional.

I dont think declaring pronouns is kindness I think it's a way for employers to pretend to care about equality without actually spending any money or supporting people who might benefit from inclusion eg disabled / vulnerable / people with learning disabilities

It's a scam IMHO

Isn't that awkwardness there regardless of whether they've put pronouns in their signature or people are just assuming what they should use? I guess that not everyone will have need of the pronouns, so maybe there are fewer people making the assumption than reading the emails.
Part of the idea is that it may be easier to put the pronouns which feel right to them if they are not the only person giving their pronouns.

I've spent nearly 40 years in mostly male dominated businesses. Carefully taking out of written correspondence all those little indicators that I'm a woman.

I!ll be dawned if I put any bloody pronouns in there to make it easier for the discrimination to start any earlier than "necessary".

Other people? I don't care what they do.

I wonder how Spanish and French people refer to gender non-binary people. There is no gender neutral term such as they/them as all terms are gendered. Adjectives must be exhausting.

It is not “just human kindness” at all.

In French they've coined 'iel' and in Spanish they've coined 'elle'. I'd be interested to know how widely used/understood these new terms are.

The Official Politically Correct Dictionary and Handbook (published in 1992) offers this handy pronoun:
h'orsh'it: a contraction of "he or she or it", first offered by Joel Forbes in 1975

They do at a certain council I’m unfortunately having to deal with at the moment. They recently spelt my name wrong in a formal letter despite it being spelt in full on the bottom of all my communications, but their pronouns are present and correct.

That a very good response which I would have borrowed had I still been in the workplace