To be agreeing with new conservative benefits proposal re alcohol etc

[Tigerthebreadroll]

They will cut benefits for people that haven't paid into the system and been unemployed for over 6 months (don't quote me on that number ) by 30 % and it will be given on a prepaid type card. Meaning it won't be accepted by betting shops, for alcohol or cigarettes. I feel that's right . Why should tax payers money be spent on funding cigarettes etc but I have no problem with funding the basics like food etc.
Thoughts?
Basically you will claim full benefits if you've worked and paid into the system. Should reduce generational unemployment hopefully

But that’s not the point, and you surely know that ‘benefits’ are for feeding yourself/your family, putting a roof over your head and paying utilities. It’s scandalous that some children are going hungry because feckless parents prioritise alcohol, cigarettes, tattoos, fake nails, the latest phones or whatever. Fine to have those things if you can afford to by working. Not fine to expect tax payers to fund it.

No, I stopped in 1997. Just after Diana's death. I won't take it up again as I would like to live as long as my parents did and garner 28 years state pension.

Paid in vouchers?

You know one 19yr old which you are comparing mainly to the late forties and fifties workforce who are heavily struggling with unemployment post redundancy after a lifetime of work and paying taxes? Baring in mind that may have teenagers to support through uni, mortgages to pay and caring responsibilities? This is not like for like at all.

Is everyone missing the point of how easy it is to make homemade wine and how dangerous this actually is in practice or is that just me?
if someone’s an alcoholic they’ll find a way and drink anything

I think that if we're starting this, it should apply to child benefit. Also, free childcare should be at state nurseries and parents who want a choice should pay for it themselves.

Do you honestly believe that parents so intransigent are suddenly going to reconsider their approach to parenthood if their benefit is partly paid in the form of prepaid card?

There is precedent for this, and in every instance all that happens is the prepaid cards get exchanged for cash at a rate nowhere near face value, and the money is then spent doing precisely the same things anyway.

You can not beat and punish people out of penury and poor lifestyle. All that achieves is to push them deeper into it.

No, I worked from 15 and paid taxes/NI. This vouchers scheme is for people who haven't worked. IE Paid in with their labour.

@Ireallycantthinkofagoodone But you are talking about a tiny proportion of a tiny proportion of the overall benefits bill.

Most people on UC who are not disabled, or a carer and are long term unemployed are not spending their money on fags and booze. Would you like to ban them from buying chocolate and fuzzy socks too?

This cohort represents less than 0.9% of the benefits bill and per head are the least expensive part of that bill. The UK government spends more on the state pension every 6 days than it spends on this entire long-term unemployed group in a full year.

If you can't see a problem with restricting what people spend their own money on, then you aren't thinking hard enough.

Yeah, I didn't think you would be a fan of vouchers for yourself.

A family member of mine is one of the people the supporters of this would be targeting. Long term unemployed, long history of petty crime, alcoholic, smoker.
If he actually went without alcohol, he'd be dead pretty quickly, which I'm sure some would be happy about. The reality is if he were given a cashless system he'd just sell the card, same as how he shoplifts to fund his habits already. It's a forty year addiction, he isn't going to change his ways because of a government policy. Even if he tried to get sober the chances of it working are miniscule. He has been though all the programmes offered through NHS/probation in the past, none stuck and I can't see any reason that further public money should be spent on those for him, they're extremely expensive.
Sure someone could try and send him to work, but he'd be useless. How would you do health and safety with someone who needs to drink daily to avoid having a seizure? What use would he be as a litter picker when he has neuropathy from long term alcohol abuse?
Yes its a pain he's taking money in benefits, but the reality is he won't make it to 60, so he's never going to get a pension. He won't cost the public purse for that much longer.

The other part that people tend to ignore is how individuals end up in this situation. He's no angel, of course, and maybe could have tried a different route. But he came from s background of bereavement, neglect and abuse, with these patterns starting pre teen. Perhaps if there had been more intervention then things would be different, but trying a scheme like this 40 years later wouldn't work, it would just make some voters feel smug and superior.

Why? All the funded childcare hours are a set paid amount to the childcare setting, it doesn’t cost the government more to pay to a private setting then a state one. It would cost them more in setting up of more nurseries though if this was mandated.

I wouldn’t mind getting a pre paid card for child benefit though, I’d use it for the food shop, I don’t spend mine on alcohol or cigarettes. I think the card system is a good idea.

Whoever comes up with this shite seems to have no clue what amounts people on UC get, or how bad the job market is right now.

Send him to AA, they might be able to help.

It's a terrible idea.

Fundamentally all restrictions like this do is remove choice.

So, your pre-paid card that you can only spend on food. What happens if your car breaks down, and the only spare money you have is "for food"?

What happens if you lose your job as a result of that?

Would be amazing if happens as some do abuse the system.

but obv that’s some not all. And will be the ones who most need it who will be effected

My ex does abuse it. . Worked but mainly cash in hand before I met him. Went self employed and did work /earn money but rarely paid tax due to expenses so fair enough

but he turned to drink and eventually after years I had enough and we split. He stopped work. Managed to get a flat under council and also gets rent paid and uc and lwcra so an extra £400+ a month

he spends most of it on vodka and it does annoy myself and his family that he will drink self to death yet complains his hard done he is

so yes if there was a way that he couldn’t spend on alcohol and tobacco and get money reduce we would be happy

but he’s a one off. If this happens it will make those truely in need suffer more

so not sure what the solution is

It's not their own money,.

How quickly this idea will be forgotten when it's the middle classes losing jobs to AI and lining up for benefits. What about the children of these bourgeois whose new passive income is PIP for extremely common mental issues? Is PIP going to be limited in spending too?

Yes, it is, in exactly the same way that your wages are your own money.

I don't have kids. But that's not my life. No fake nails. No latest phone. I don't smoke either. Surely you understand that a lot of people on UC don't fit that stereotype. I have more than one friend on UC who are studying for a degree. To try and increase their prospects of getting a job. Neither of my friends who are on UC and studying fit that stereotype

I worked in social security for 30 years.
If they do this the people who will suffer are the children.

If the parents are feckless they will simply sell goods to buy the drugs or whatever they want.

Yabu. It's simplistic claptrap designed to appeal to people who can't think beyond a headline.

If a voucher scheme was actually workable it would've been introduced already, but it's not and any attempt at bringing one in would just cause more harm, create more problems and cost more money than the system we have now.

But it is that time of year where the right wing's ire shifts from migrants to the poor, so we'll be seeing a lot more of this no doubt.

What happens to the children after your six month cut-off? Nice houses? Where are these nice houses? You’ve really fallen for this empty rhetoric hook, line and sinker. Played straight into the hands of a Tory leader desperately clutching at straws for votes. How comes this wasn’t implemented during their time in power? They had many years to build poor houses and work houses and send the “scum” there. By the way, define “scum”. I think a lot of people are scum and they’re not on benefits.