To be agreeing with new conservative benefits proposal re alcohol etc

[Tigerthebreadroll]

They will cut benefits for people that haven't paid into the system and been unemployed for over 6 months (don't quote me on that number ) by 30 % and it will be given on a prepaid type card. Meaning it won't be accepted by betting shops, for alcohol or cigarettes. I feel that's right . Why should tax payers money be spent on funding cigarettes etc but I have no problem with funding the basics like food etc.
Thoughts?
Basically you will claim full benefits if you've worked and paid into the system. Should reduce generational unemployment hopefully

Not if they can’t fund it, no. You seem very keen on a vast welfare state. Do you think we can afford this?

You must be very privileged if you can afford to do so. Not everyone can.

I don’t think it does, according to previous estimates. Obesity costs the NHS more now, and there’s no food tax kickback to the Treasury. 🤷‍♀️

it won’t solve anything - people will just sell the food or equivalent for cash. And what if you’re unable to find a job? Yes ideally everyone should be in work but what if it’s not available ?

Obviously not.

You seem to be in a privileged position of being able to do so.

Do you understand that not everyone is in the same position?

We are all entitled to enjoy pleasures in life but the point is the benefits system is in place to keep you basically self sufficient to be able to have somewhere to live, a shirt on your back and something to eat. Not to buy you alcohol and cigarettes.
Neither of those are essential to life in general - a nice to have - if you can afford it but not a necessity.

Making people poorer makes them less able to secure employment. You don't have to be brains of Britain to understand that a person turning up to interview who hasn't eaten, had a haircut, who's clothes are past their best and who may be feeling the health impacts of an unheated home, is not going to be the ideal candidate in a competitive job market. That's if they can even afford to travel to get there in the first place.

The proposals could be acceptable, IF:

• there are enough jobs to go around
• those jobs pay a living wage
• people in social housing/rented accommodation are able to move to areas with jobs if necessary
• training and back to work initiatives are available to all who need them
• medical problems preventing people from working that can be treated are treated promptly

Just cutting benefits and leaving people in penury while pretending it's their own fault, and failing to address societal and health barriers, isn't on, though.

I wonder if @Tigerthebreadroll will return to the thread they started or is it one of those plop and runs?

This whole thread is about stereotypes

@Tigerthebreadroll You just have to look at the US where benefits claimants sell their food tickets on the black market for cash getting less money for them but real money to buy whatever they want. And it's humiliating getting a card with limitations on what you can buy. It's like the govt think that you are a smoking alcoholic not capable of making good decisions because you are poor. For some that is the case, but not for the majority. To stigmatise and shame people will not make them grow. One of the biggest problem with longtime benefits is that people have no confidence and selfworth which makes it even harder to "sell" yourself on the job market.

That's just a massive pisstake on the electorate.

It's honestly hilarious that people think that everyone on benefits smokes. Ive never smoked in my life

Absolutely not. The notion of denying people cash is ridiculous.

You house your children when they are growing up. What happens at 18 that means you can no longer house them? A one bed flat around here costs a minimum of £1k a month. Someone in a well paying graduate job would struggle to afford that.

The princely sum of £70ish? I’d expect them to cover their phone costs, clothing, travel and transport, food costs, toiletries, contribute to household bills, council tax possibly. As an adult they have costs no longer covered by child benefit, and the household income may not cope with another adult to feed and house.

I had to pay into the house from my first job, aged 14, my parents needed the money to survive. Many families scrape by, and adult children need to be able to cover their own costs to some degree.

They can't fund if their money is £7.50 a week and it gets paid to their parents as you are suggesting.

And yes, we can afford a welfare state. It would be better if we had the support services and wages to decrease the need but the effects of years of austerity are still being felt.

The vast part of the welfare bill is pensions.

I think this is a really good point - talk about state over reach. In a free market economy, I think the state dictating what people can and can’t buy is a very slippery slope.

As is the notion that all benefits are genuinely claimed, but here we are. If the welfare system was more robustly managed, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

That's not strictly true because smokers die younger and don't strain the NHS by living to a great old age. They just cost more while theyre alive.
I can't quote any source because its a fact I picked up years ago.

This is completely absurd. Should people on benefits just eat gruel ? I think what some people forget is that many people on Universal credit actually work. I spent a year working two zero hour jobs but I didn't get enough hours to close my claim. I was being paid wages into my bank but at that point my UC reduced by 67p for every pound I earned. I was barely better off at points after travel was factored in but I was working. The Tories have not thought this through.

Shirt on your back and something to eat ?

UC child element ends, as does child benefit, if it’s a single parent household you loose the single adult discount on council tax. Each of those alone can tip a just managing household into not managing at all.

Besides which young people need to move towards independence, contributing to the household helps that move in terms of financial management.

Nice.
There are not enough jobs to go around at the moment.
No amount of humiliating community service will change that.
You think all the long-term unemployed are scroungers?

Honestly it’s obviously flawed and unworkable as a plan I can’t believe anyone genuinely thinks it’s a good idea. It’s just populist nonsense.

What do you mean by "unable"?

Because people genuinely unable won't have these cuts

The "unwilling" will