AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

I'm baffled at the number of people on Mumsnet who struggle with the most basic social interactions and find making friends to be traumatic, but have found a life partner to settle down and have kids with.

A significant number of posters on here struggle with friendship or social interaction to various degrees, manifested in the extreme in the declarations that they "hate people", "don't want new friends", find friends to be too much "drama" and only want to spend time with their families. There is a classic of the genre running at the moment in which an OP has taken umbrage at a coworker making fairly mild friendly overtures to her as a gross invasion of her privacy. (But admits that she met her partner at work?) Or just at the milder end of the spectrum the huge amount of anxiety which making new friends seems to generate.

I genuinely don't understand why people who have managed to find an intimate relationship in which to have children can find the prospect of exchanging words outside the school gate or sending a text to a coworker so traumatic.

I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends. But texting someone (platonically) to ask if they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt. The "school mum" threads are a whole sub-genre in their own right, where the paranoia and suspicion is often seriously irrational.

Why do people find it relatively easy to find a partner but finding friends so difficult? From my perspective it should be the other way around.

I wonder if they'd walk into a pub and elbow their way into a group of regulars, demanding to be bought a drink.

I've been with DH for 25 years, in my 50s, absolutely no friends. Not one.

This isn't my choice. I'm disabled and cannot work so do not meet anyone new. I had friends many years ago, but I moved cities after an abusive relationship ended to live in a refuge and for my own safety, had to cut contact with everyone from back home. I met DH very randomly a couple of years later and we became close very quickly.

I had a few acquaintances when DS was little via school but they fell away as our children got older.

I'm now in a situation where I have not had a conversation with anyone other than DH or DS (other than in shops/HCPs etc) for well over 15 years. Not working means I don't have money for a social life even if I had friends, and my disabilities can make going out difficult.

At my age I don't expect this to change. I often feel very lonely but accepting of this. DH has no friends either and hasn't all the time I've known him apart from now and again going for a drink with a colleague (maybe four or five times in 25 years). He is happy with this and says he doesn't need friends. We have no family between us either apart from DC. I wish I could be as unbothered about it as DH but unfortunately I do often feel isolated and very lonely.

This. Making friends with other women (at school or anywhere) is not the same as "forming a clique".

I'm sorry to hear this, this sounds very difficult. I don't mean to minimise this experience and this is very understandable. I still think you could potentially make friends though, it might just need you to push yourself out of your comfort zone.

I've only read the first couple of replies, but I disagree strongly with them. Some posters are suggesting that once a partner is found, people stop trying. Far too trite and simplistic. A lot of life happens by chance, and why shouldn't friendless people get lucky and find a partner. I say this as someone who had no friends for most of my schooldays, few since then that lasted. Yet I met my husband to be at age 17, have now been married 39 very happy yrs, but am usually on the outside whenever I interact with people, and not through lack of trying. There are frequently articles advising on how to get out of attending friends' weddings, but I've never been invited to one. I struggled to find a bridesmaid for my own wedding. It's a mystery why some people make friends and not others, but it's just a little patronising to be surprised when we find love.

For me, I’m just exhausted and barely get time to be by myself. Three children, one disabled and pre-verbal autistic, another ND and a toddler on top of my own health issues, work, and DH’s mental health issues. Between getting a moment to myself vs a new friend, I’d choose the former. Trying to make friends is energy I don’t have at the moment, unfortunately.

Saying that when I get close to friendship, I somehow become the listening ear/therapist/ hype woman and I don’t have the energy anymore without some reciprocation. People seem to want to spill their life stories and troubles which I’m happy to listen but I also would like to have the same once in awhile. I also can’t stand a certain amount of moaning if one doesn’t plan to change things when they are able to and I’m not an enabler. I’m not going to agree if you’re doing something wrong or try to make you feel better about it. I’m going to ask the questions not just accept if something looks / reads / sounds off. I’ve found in the past, people don’t tend to like that.

I really don’t need another person I have to manage in some way.

and apologies again but it is always women

Hmm. Is it, though? That seems a little misogynistic.

most men run a mile at the sight of that sort of petulant, febrile behaviour in someone they are dating

Do they, though? This seems a little naive.

In my experience the answer to both of those is a resounding 'no'. Plenty of men overreact to the smallest slight or dent to their ego, and treat it like a mortal wound, and plenty of men will overlook anything for the company of an attractive woman who is nice to them.

I find friendships a lot of work, I've had some really intense friendships that sucked up a lot of time. I have a really busy life (work and parenting - 5 kids) I need my friendships to be fun and relaxing, not someone who is going to whine because I didn't respond to a text or don't want to meet up three times a week.

When I was younger I cared more, now I'm older I care less. My work is quite draining so my leftover energy goes into husband and kids. I still have people I consider 'friends' but they are more at arm's length so more like acquaintances I know well, and that seems to suit us all to a tee. Some I might see every other week, some I might see every couple of months, some once a year. We might not be in contact for months. It's fine.

I really put no weight on friendships anymore, I felt like I used to end up taking on their problems and trauma and I have no space for that, so I'm really not interested in making more friends.

I was talking to a therapist about this recently and she was saying that a marriage can camouflage a lot.
I was saying that when a person is married that it covers up a lot, the optics of it, but she as saying that there are absolute crazy people in marriages too.

I had thought that if they are maintaining a marriage that they must be normal, kind, respectful or at least good at relationships but actually a lot of people are trapped in marriages and being married does not mean anything at all and it definitely doesn’t mean that they are not crazy!!

Also, am working all the time, don't have anywhere near enough time to spend with my dc, I would rather spend my time with my dc and my dp, that was my thought also. Priorities.

I have always found this hard actually. I do have friends but I find maintaining friendships quite hard as I feel like I never have enough time.

I spend too much time with my partner, I don’t think he’s my best friend (although he’s so fun and good company) but he often is my first preference for the time I do have available, then there is also things like the gym, housework etc and I have to actively make the effort to make time for my friends, it’s so easy to just let time pass

Whoever said sex is the main difference, yes for me it’s physical contact. My kids are older now but I still have a strong desire for physical contact with other people, and it’s not like my friends enjoy wrapping me in big hugs while we watch a film together 😂.

I do find it easier to relax and be more myself with my partner than friends, even old ones. When you meet your friends you have to put in a lot of effort to talk and connect but with a partner you can just lie together on the sofa touching with no conversation and that’s very comforting.

I do love my friends though and have been actively putting in more effort with them recently

they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt.

Friends are not special people. They are as much complex, flawed human beings as pool of romantic partners.

Asking for coffee is not a big thing. But rejection is. One rejection is not a problem, multiple rejections are.

It’s easy to make friends when much younger - in school, colleges or in 20s because life is less complex, there are not so many responsibilities demanding your attention.

People leave their home towns for work or due to a relationship and over time friendships fade. I lived in multiple countries, which adds another layer of complexities. Making a new friend once you cross 35 is not as simple as asking someone for a coffee.

I love meeting people for coffee but what happens after you meet them for coffee is also important. Do they just talk about themselves, their problems or do they also take interest in you? Do they expect you to be very flexible with where you meet, what you do but are not flexible themselves. All these experiences are very tiring and discourage you to want to try less next time.

Also friendships can also impact self esteem. Some ‘friends’ can put you down, are users, only remember when they need something from you, never there for you when you struggle, etc.

So the process can get tiring. And even if you meet a good person, there’s no guarantee they have the same need/motivation to form a friendship like you do. Life gets complex after certain age, e.g. juggling work and family commitments. So you maybe be very low in their priority list. At least in dating world, both parties are interested in going for a date.

From my own experience, after certain age friendships can be as tiring and exhausting as any other relationship can be.

To be really cynical, most men run a mile at the sight of that sort of petulant, febrile behaviour in someone they are dating.

Less likely if they're getting regular sex. In my experience, men will put up with an awful lot if they're getting regular sex.

And as PPs have said, these women are likely to be holding their partners to a different standard (women, too, will often put up with a huge amount to be in a relationship, as we see here every day) and a PP mentioned that she can express love and support and so on to her husband through sex. Not so with school mum friends. Well, not usually.

It is possible to be isolated and emotionally vulnerable within a relationship.
But it can be managed and worked-through precisely because the relationship is committed and intimate. The formal social status (whether married or not) of being 'in a relationship' acts as a kind of container or boundary within which everything can be worked out.
If it is not worked out, either the couple hang on for decades in a dead marriage (not uncommon), or they formally break up (more likely to happen in the early stages and years of the relationship).

What happens post menopause or andropause when that sex may dry up?
Maybe that's why gray divorces are increasing.

Fair enough that the word clique is frequently misapplied. I also don't extrapolate anything to 'all women are bitches', as no one has a right to friendship with anyone else. But it still sucks to always be the awkward one that no one likes, and can make you wary of people.

As for 'all women are bitches', it seems like OP thinks only women are thin-skinned, socially dysfunctional, petulant, febrile, resentful martyrs who take offence to minor slights. Very interesting

Frankly, OP seems like the sort of person I'd steer clear of, as the amount of harsh judgement towards the socially awkward, and the dogged refusal to understand that people can feel differently to her, doesn't seem very friendly.

I think you’re mostly taking about people with a victim mentality.

Some people struggle with friendships but are still open and friendly. I can make very good acquaintances, just not friends.

Some people struggle with friendships but think it’s everyone else’s fault. I usually assume that their romantic relationships must be quite drama filled.

Fair enough. I'm not sure I'd be great at that either! But it would be good company if I got lonely.

I think thats true but also its safer to take out your frustration on another woman than a man , for fear of violence
Thats what most of the arsey, agressive posters on here are doing
Baiting other women to relieve their own issues
Dont take the bait!

Most people approach adult friendships the same way as they did when they were 5 - just trying to push into conversations or targeting people who are on their own.

Then they wonder why people don’t want to know them and get highly offended so they ask randoms on the internet, who tell them to pretend they don’t care and the other person will be desperate for their friendship.

I think most of them must have been brought up with the ‘include everyone’ mentality and lack understanding that it’s natural to dislike/not care about some people and to therefore not include them.

Also most people feel they need to be coupled up so it’s about attraction not personality compatibility. Just read the relationship boards.People put up with far more from their partners

Yes, and lots of pp have given you solid reasons why they found romantic relationships easier than friendships, because romantic relationships and friendships really aren't that similar in structure, when you think about it.

A much clearer social script, sexual attraction, and total monogamous commitment being just three reasons.

So I'm not sure why you still don't understand?

Well said, but what you say is, sadly, true. Anyone who doesn't "fit in" with societal norms is indeed labelled as a misfit, particularly those who are naturally shy/quiet/introverted/socially awkward. Modern life is all aimed for the extraverts, the ones who find it easy to meet new people and make life long friends in a matter of minutes. They regard anyone unlike themselves as the "misfits". Such people have the attitude that the introverted/weird ones are the problem and it's their own fault and would be easy for them to "cure" themselves if only they'd make an effort!

My reading was that OP is talking about women because this is a ( mostly) women's site.
Anyway sorry if I have posted too damn much. It's my day off.

Regarding pp who said" How to move from clubs' to friendships? It's hard. Very hard. I have found that 80% of people just want to do the activity and don't want to make friends. But 20% do. They are just waiting for someone to make the first move. I usually do. Also, the 80% who don't want to make friends still add to my life..I also enjoy having some acquaintances.

@Redpaisley

I love meeting people for coffee but what happens after you meet them for coffee is also important. Do they just talk about themselves, their problems or do they also take interest in you? Do they expect you to be very flexible with where you meet, what you do but are not flexible themselves. All these experiences are very tiring and discourage you to want to try less next time.

Also friendships can also impact self esteem. Some ‘friends’ can put you down, are users, only remember when they need something from you, never there for you when you struggle, etc.

So the process can get tiring. And even if you meet a good person, there’s no guarantee they have the same need/motivation to form a friendship like you do. Life gets complex after certain age, e.g. juggling work and family commitments. So you maybe be very low in their priority list. At least in dating world, both parties are interested in going for a date.
From my own experience, after certain age friendships can be as tiring and exhausting as any other relationship can be.

I sort of get that: everyone has had suboptimal friendships. But isn't it the way you choose to look at it?

If you meet someone for a coffee and you find them a bit boring/self-absorbed, and they don't follow up for another meeting, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? Can't you just let it go and see what happens?

I understand that this all takes time and organisation. But I don't understand why people feel the need to "name" and "identify" people as friends so soon the process. Can't you just have the coffee and play it by ear? If you don't want to have another coffee, or she doesn't want to have another coffee, has anyone really lost anything?

A lot of people seem to really overinvest in these sorts of interactions as if they are doing a job interview and then get frustrated at the lack of "feedback" and "follow-up". But it's wildly unrealistic to expect someone to decide, based on a couple of coffee meetings, that you're a BFF. Can't we just reframe things and accept that what will be will be? Other than the price of the aforementioned coffee, it hasn't cost you anything.

Sorry about your disability. I'm like your DH and refuse to let my lack of friends bother me. If I knew you IRW, I'd be happy to meet you for coffee. Remember to cherish what you have, and don't let FOMO re friends take over. That doesn't mean stop trying, though. If your disability ever allows you the opportunity, take it, but don't see it as terribly important. Have you read Nicholas Nickleby? Dickens is so insightful, and there's a moving paragraph about Miss La Creevy, which has stuck in my mind. A lovely person with no friends. Well, there are so many Miss La Creevys quietly getting on with life. We're not alone.