AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

I'm baffled at the number of people on Mumsnet who struggle with the most basic social interactions and find making friends to be traumatic, but have found a life partner to settle down and have kids with.

A significant number of posters on here struggle with friendship or social interaction to various degrees, manifested in the extreme in the declarations that they "hate people", "don't want new friends", find friends to be too much "drama" and only want to spend time with their families. There is a classic of the genre running at the moment in which an OP has taken umbrage at a coworker making fairly mild friendly overtures to her as a gross invasion of her privacy. (But admits that she met her partner at work?) Or just at the milder end of the spectrum the huge amount of anxiety which making new friends seems to generate.

I genuinely don't understand why people who have managed to find an intimate relationship in which to have children can find the prospect of exchanging words outside the school gate or sending a text to a coworker so traumatic.

I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends. But texting someone (platonically) to ask if they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt. The "school mum" threads are a whole sub-genre in their own right, where the paranoia and suspicion is often seriously irrational.

Why do people find it relatively easy to find a partner but finding friends so difficult? From my perspective it should be the other way around.

I don’t struggle to meet people, I’m perfectly happy to speak to people in new situations. I do find it hard to move from acquaintance to proper friend these days though. Lots of my close friends moved away and whilst we’re still in contact virtually and occasional meet ups it’s hard to find people local. Everyone I meet is happy to chat on a superficial level but generally have their own friends for nights out and meet ups. As busy parents to young children this means it’s hard to fit in new people. I do feel quite lonely sometimes. I’m fairly senior at work too so unlikely to make lots of close friends there whereas when I was younger and more junior I had lots of friends through work. The other senior people are significantly older than me and in different life stages. I keep busy by volunteering and doing kids activities like swimming and sports classes. My youngest has just started school and I’m hoping to make some friends that way.

I think all of us have this: trouble moving from acquaintances to friends. I felt so lonely with the empty nest and not having local friends that I actually started a walking group in my area. Has taken a lot of effort but we now have 6 to 7 women- complete strangers to me!- turning up. I would call a couple friends.

But having children does rip relationships apart.

I sort of agree that romantic relationships are just as dodgy (hence why I don’t have them) but people wanging on about society doesn’t help.

Well you know what they say - when you have met one autistic woman you have met one autistic woman.

The autistic woman I know are much sharper at reading people that their NT counterparts. We don’t ‘need’ people in the same way.

But none of that explains why someone would claim to hate people.

It's just a really sad state of mind to me - there are so many wonderful people out there, it seems such a shame to label them all as bad or cruel or nasty or something best avoided.

I think this is totally normal. It's much harder to make friends when you're busy and particularly when a lot of your friends from your youth have moved away.

I don't think many people find it easy. But I do think mindset is a big part of it: openness to friendship but without expectation or obligation is a key element. Being open to converting people you meet from acquaintance to friend but without the intensity that some people seem to bring to it. Understanding that its OK to just get on with someone without the expectation that you're committing to being a friend forever, that building friendships is organic and slow, and willingness to roll with the punches.

No worse than labelling them all as kind and nice.

Of course there are good and bad but people as a general concept are selfish and nasty.

IME the good ones are in the minority

I wouldn't (and haven't) label everyone as kind and nice, though.

Of course humans are selfish - that's how we've got where we are as a species, but that doesn't mean we can't also be good friends and a positive in other's lives.

If people are a positive in my life then that’s fine. If they aren’t, then I know I don’t need to bother.

When people say they hate others then there are always comments like ‘do you hate yourself’ - it’s ridiculous. Do you think it’s a ‘gotcha’? It’s like when people don’t like children and someone thinks they are being clever by pointing out that that person was once a child.

I would rather not have contact with people than have to deal with those who are so desperate for friends that they latch on

I'm sorry if you think its an attempted gotcha but I do think the blanket "I hate people" statement is inherently ridiculous: it's self-evidently a huge sweeping statement to say all people are "selfish and nasty". People are massively variable as a starting point and then their behaviour various wildly according to situations.

I also wonder why people bother posting on a chat thread with other people if they genuinely hate people? If you really genuinely wanted nothing to do with other people why would you bother engaging with an online community in the first place?

It feels slightly performative, to be honest. I get it's often coming from a place of pain or anger but I don't really buy it.

I think it is very easy to fall out of the social circle loop to find new friends after the age of 35 especially if you've moved locations, houses and jobs a few times . Most people have settled down by 35 with really that don't allow themselves or their partners to socialise as such while they have young children and teenagers and mortgages.

. I also think think Apps have become the new norm for dating and meeting potential partners, but far less so for new friendships. Gen Z is apparently the loneliness socio-economic group because they now talk about their problems via an AI chatbot, rather than having a heart to heart with a best friend. It's sad.

I thought your initial post was intended for people who want to make friends but find it hard.

But now the whole thread has become about people who never, ever want any friends and think people who do are 'desperate!' 😀

Of course it's not a "gotcha". It's a genuine question. Saying you "hate people" just screams immaturity to me - it's the kind of thing a stroppy teenager says when they don't get their way.

Besides, - how do you know if someone will be a positive in your life unless you actually get to know them and give them a chance?

Also, as @Thepeopleversuswork has just said, if you dislike people so much, why are you on a forum interacting with them?

Yeah I'll probably get torn a new one for saying this but I think the majority of the people who say they never want any friends and hate all people under all circumstances are not being entirely honest with themselves.

I'll be torn a new one with you then because I absolutely agree with you.

Well it’s not coming from a place of pain and anger.

’I hate people’ doesn’t tend to include all people. Just the majority of those they have come across.

And if you think that talking on a chat site is the same as dealing with people in person then you are missing the point.

With the internet, it’s easy to stop the communication. When people talk to you face to face it’s harder to get extract yourself.

Oh my goodness, have you zero empathy?

People who have experienced sustained horrific abuse will probably say they hate people as a defence mechanism
Zero self awareness and empathy

But that's not "hating people" is it? What you're actually saying is that you've bad experiences with a significant subset of people you've come across. That's shit, but its life and it happens to everyone.

If you said it like that you might find a lot more common ground with people you meet.

Extrapolating your dislike of some of the bad applies you've met out to every one of the 7+ billion people on the planet as if it were genetically hardwired is nonsense and its hard to believe you honestly believe that.

This must be friends thing is rather odd

There are some people you just dont want to be friends with
Thats ok
Really dangerous to tell women they must give up their autonomy and go against their instincts
Have you heard of " emotional safety" @Thepeopleversuswork

Has anyone said this? That women need to be friends with anyone and everyone? People are inventing things.

Op said she doesnt know why people cant just go for a coffee/ get on and make friends
Sometimes you just dont want to

She's talking about women who claim to find it impossible to make friends but then refuse to do any of the above.

@Anarchy99 has just posted that it doesn't come from a place of pain or anger.

Listen I am full of compassion for people who have had a shit time in life and are prepared to be honest about it (on here or otherwise).

But with the best will in the world I don't owe it to people who are professionally miserable and cynical to indulge them in trashing the rest of the human race.

If someone thinks not trusting and liking people because of a lifetime of abuse makes you immature then they have zero understanding of trauma

It's fine to not want to go for a coffee or whatever, but they can't have it both ways.

You can't on the one hand insist you "hate people" and "don't need friends" and then complain about being lonely and say you don't trust people and get shitty with mums at the school gates for looking at you wrong etc.