AIBU to ask for guidance around DC and A levels with university in mind - I'm clueless

[Tomorrowtodaynever]

I didn't go to university traditionally, I ended up doing it as a mature student and his dad didn't go. I am helping Year 11 DC think about A level choices but with university in mind. Can anyone input?

So, in short: DC is bright and could do well across all subjects, but when it comes to choosing A levels they really can't decide. There are definite Nos - and these are a lot of the traditional subjects. I really want him to keep his options open and go to a good uni, if that can happen. Obviously if it doesn't, that's fine too. But I read that the Russell Group universities tend to favour facilitating vs non facilitating - I grabbed this (there are a few missing but you get the giste). Is this right? Should I be guiding him towards at least two of the facilitating subjects? What matters at A level? What you love to do or what (with one eye on the future) keeps things broad?

Any advice would be really welcome.

Does he have any idea what career he wants to pursue?

No. He has no idea of career at all.

Ok, what are the A Levels he's considering, and which has he rejected? What are his academic strengths and weaknesses? In general I would say he's best doing three subjects he's likely to get the best possible grades in.

He'd be best speakign with his teachers and careers advisers at school

What degree area is he looking at reading? That’s the best starting point. I personally wouldn’t get too hung up on Russell group unless you’re looking at finance or top law. It’s more important to choose the best course imo.

There’s no shame in not knowing what direction he wants to go in even before he takes his GCSE’s. This year may solidify his likes/dislikes: he may surprise himself compared to his views now.

Also bear in mind there may be new subjects available at A level: psychology, sociology, economics, politics, media are often only taught at A level. Worth perhaps doing some research on these and any others he may not have considered.

But the very best advice in the absence of any vocational ambitions which naturally dictate the choice of A levels, is to go with the subjects he is likely to get the best grade in- this will keep options open. Including at least one essay based subject will be good preparation for most uni courses.

If he is undecided between two subjects (say), pick the one with the best teacher.

Some uni courses will require certain A levels so it’s worth checking if he has certain courses in mind. Most sciences will require chemistry and probably maths or physics. Something like Economics may require maths.

My old subject, Law, doesn’t require specific subjects but there would be an expectation in some universities that you had done some of the more traditional / serious subjects.

The other pieces of advice I gave my DC was:-

1. Do a subject you think you will like (but accept that A levels can be quite different from GCSE)
2. Think about the exam format. One of my DS really didn’t enjoy writing essays much so picking a subject where the exam was likely to be heavily essay based vs shorter questions and problems would have been a mistake

This website
https://www.informedchoices.ac.uk/
Is the official Russel group advice on choosing a levels.

in my opinion, maths is the most useful subject for facilitating university study and any kid who has the ability should aim to do maths. Anything else is a bonus and can be picked by interest.

What are his absolute Nos? It can be tempting to pick new subjects that you haven't done before without realising they are a lot like the old subjects you were trying to avoid.

This often changes across year 11 and for many a level subjects there will be a minimum gcse grade so what he can actually do will depend on his results.

if he’s got some very clear definitely not he’s in a better position than most.

I'd say that although there are lots of new and exciting subjects it's probably not a good idea to do only new subjects because they are a bit of an unknown and you don't know how much you'll enjoy them.

If he has an idea about degree area he should look up required A levels. Some subjects are fussier than others, e.g. medicine needs chemistry and biology, engineering needs maths and physics, architecture needs maths, physics and an art subject. But even for those professions there are exceptions that have more relaxed requirements. All science degrees require two sciences but what they are will vary (and psychology, geography, PE can count as sciences), humanities have less strict requirements and only require one humanity. So two sciences and a humanity will open up the most doors if he's unsure. If two sciences fill him with horror then you're looking at a humanity degree and doing what he loves will be fine. But be aware that he will encounter far fewer locked in students studying humanities or social sciences than he will doing a hard science.

Thanks everyone, this is so helpful🙂

His hard nos are languages, geography, and prob English - this is a shame as he's a really gifted creative writer but he doesn't like reading much and he doesn't like his teacher.

He loves drama. He really liked the look of psychology. He really enjoys sociology GSCE. He's done well in sciences so far, is doing triple. He likes maths and is predicted to do well but I don't think he wants to do it at A level. I suggested economics. He did a law taster and found it quite boring, which surprised me.

Law A level and a law degree are quite different and having a law A level absolutely is not a requirement for a law degree.

I would also say that Law is one of the degrees young people sometimes get encouraged to do because it is a traditional serious degree. If you are interested in Law it’s a great degree but if you are not then it is a bit grim. Anyone who has studied Law at undergrad could probably name a couple of people who were doing law because their parents thought it was a good degree to have. I say this as a lawyer - don’t do a law degree unless you are really interested - you can still become a lawyer via a conversion course (GDL) after uni.

Russell Group is a very old fashioned way of looking at uni. Maybe for PhD level studies, research focused academics, or the oldy worldy subjects (art history or classics) they're a priority but for a kid doing psychology or some of the more modern subjects, they need to look at the best universities for their degree without restrictions. Some of the post 92s are much quicker, slicker and more impressive from a T&L point of view. Russell Group unis occasionally overlook teaching in favour of research although a layperson wouldn't see that.

There are university ranking lists which you can filter by subject, that's the best way to look at it. Look at the rankings, TEF etc. But all of this is down the line. He needs to sort out his A-Levels first. You're looking too far ahead.

What are his favourite subjects and which is he getting best grades in?
Start from there

Usually universities prefer a higher grade in a “less favourable” subject than the other way around.
Most courses have no specific requirements but he should think about what kind of degree he might like and which A levels are sensible- for example chemistry is needed for medicine, maths & physics are best for engineering, science degrees often require at least 2 science A levels (geography and psychology are usually considered science subjects).

From what you have said Biology, psychology and sociology would be good ones for him to consider. Lots of different degree options there.
Economics will require maths

Facilitating subjects are not considered any more.

That said, Cambridge does have a list of recommended subjects for specific degrees (or categories of degree) so if that's possible it's worth a look.

Otherwise for sure there are subjects that are needed for some degrees. And if he is interested in those degrees then he should consider those subjects. But taking two old-school fac subjs in and of itself will not open up all degrees. I mean obviously.

So some examples of degrees and subjects you need

Engineering - take maths and physics
Science (inc psychology) - take the science you like and one other (but this can include the trad sciences, psych, geography, env science, even PE). (Not true btw that most science degrees require chemistry A level. DS2 has just graduated with a masters in bio sciences and no chemistry beyond GCSE.)
MFL - take the MFL
Eng lit - take eng lit
Medicine/vetmed/dentisry - take bio and chem ideally
CS - take maths
Economics - take maths and econ is a good idea too but not required
Maths - take maths and FM

But degrees like history (in a lot of unis anyway inc eg Leeds and Brum IIRC) geography, sociology, class civ, philosophy, criminology, social policy and many others need no specific A levels as a rule.

I see he has no idea – he must have a leaning towards some subjects? They would be an indicator of a good direction (eg no way DD would want to take biology A level so med/science was off the table - all good). Agree with others it might be an idea to talk to a careers adviser. And yy subjects he enjoys and will get a good grade in are a good idea.

I see from your update @Tomorrowtodaynever he says no to geog, MFL and English. That's all fine. And it gives an idea of direction. A combo like biology, chemistry and sociology or psychology would offer a lot of degree options - med/vetmet/dentistry/biology/chemistry/biosciences/psychology. Swap maths for the psych and you could also do chem engineering and economics.

Btw re English – it's not (at all) about creative writing (not eng lit anyway) and it is very much about reading books. DD in her eng degree had to read a book a week for each of three modules every term.

Apols for essay haha

This is really helpful, thank you. and you're right, I'm thinking about it a little narrowly and wrongly. I just feel out of my depth

I did a politics degree - my a levels were English Politics History - if he isn't keen on reading I would feel that rules a lot of subjects out!

The reading thing is true - but I think it's more fiction that's the issue. He used to read so much but that just went about a year ago and we got tired of pushing (and I'd read it can turn a teen off becoming an adult reader). He sees me reading SO MUCH that I can't do much more to model how much enjoyment it can bring.

Psychology and Geography are both subjects that cover science and humanities, requiring significant maths beyond GCSE level but also proper essay writing skills.

Excellent subjects for the broadly uncommited.

I would suggest, unless he is aiming for a specific high-flying uni subject, it's probably best to pick the subjects he most enjoys.

Any consideration of what subjects price what to universities doesn't consider that he has to spend two years immersed in the subject and he's unlikely to remain motivated if he doesn't love it.

Education is primarily about expanding your mind rather than getting into uni. If he suddenly discovered a passion for a uni subject that requires a certain a level he'll be able to go back and study it then.

I've never heard of geography requiring maths. Nor psychology. I understand the need to have writing skills, which they do

Thank you, yes I agree. He has to want to do it and enjoy it