Dog crates are cruel

[Poppycorn123]

In light of this terrible story I think they should be banned. Yes people will say they are good for training etc but I think in general they are being overused. A family member would put the dog in it while they have guests. Dog is not vicious or anything, just gets a bit excited as a young dog should. I think this is awful.

Exactly and it seems nobody can answer this point. Why do they need to close the door if not to keep them confined? Then to say they like it there, well doesn’t seem they have much choice in the matter.

I think a lot of owners try to convince themselves being kept in a crate (cage) is ok because the alternative is to admit it’s cruel.

I’ve had two dogs and neither has ever been put in a crate. Dare I say it, I think it’s the lazy way out.

Dare I say it, I think it’s the lazy way out.

Possibly! But it works for us and our dog. I have enough other stuff in my life that can't be avoided by taking a lazy way out. This keeps her safe and contented.

Well, I did close the door to keep my then puppy confined.

We had a fantastic routine for toilet training/play/sleep. She’s the 5th golden retriever I’ve had in my life and the only one I’ve used a crate with (the breeder had introduced crates, a lot of her dogs go off for show, so she had crates in the rooms the puppies are in from day one for them to go in and out of as they please, by the time she came to us at 12 weeks, she was used to short periods in a crate, saw the one we had for her and jumped in happily).

We thought we would give it a go this time and it’s been great. She’s now a very happy 2 year old and we no longer use one, unless in the car or on holiday.

Do you think she was screaming and crying and clawing to get out or something? She went in the crate, the door was closed, she went to sleep.

I didn’t want her getting out when she wasn’t supervised.

I didn’t want her wandering the house at night when she wasn’t supervised. I don’t allow dogs in bedrooms.

Crates really help some dogs feel calm and safe. It really helped with training mine.

ETA - my toddler likes her nursery, but they keep the doors locked so she can’t wander out. Just because you shut a cage door, it doesn’t mean the animal is trapped and is hating every second. You just don’t want them wandering out when they haven’t got your full attention.

And actually, my dog didn’t have a choice in the matter.

I have to keep her safe and train her. I’m sure as a puppy she would have loved free reign to piss everywhere and chew anything she wanted, even if it was dangerous.

The crate was a training tool and place of safety when she couldn’t be watched, or she needed a calm space.

Another good point, there’s loads of things my dog doesn’t have a choice over including having operations, vaccinations or medication - sometimes these things cause her physical pain but I do it because I think it’s in her best interests to keep her safe and healthy. She wouldn’t willingly go to the vet, I make her go. She would probably prefer to go for walks without being on a lead but IMO it would be irresponsible of me to take the risk of her running into a busy road.

I still believe it’s how the crate is used that is the crucial bit. Used correctly or for good reason, i just don’t believe they’re cruel.

When I was a kid I had a friend whose parents got a border terrier. When the dog wasn’t being walked or fed, it was kept in a crate. I used to think “why have a dog?”. It spend most of its life in that crate. I think a lot people who disapprove of crates imagine they are used in this way. In reality I think most people use them sparingly and would never leave a dog in one if they were distressed.

Exactly. We can’t say that “dogs are pack animals” and try to enforce on everyone that the dog must not be left without human company for a second, while advocating for everything we chose to do to them to make their lives healthier and more comfortable.

If we chose to have a dog, we chose to do all those things to keep them safe.

My dog prefers to be off lead too. Tough, she can’t be all the time, it wouldn’t be safe.

Crates are no different to anything else we do.

I think people who have never crate trained don’t understand how they can be used in training.

Someone said upthread “if they soil their crate.” Thats the whole point of using a crate for toilet training. They won’t soil in their den where they sleep.

Only abusive owners will leave a dog in a crate for 12 hours a day, let it out for the toilet and then have it in there again overnight. I am sure that they are in the minority of crate users.

I could never do this to a dog . I had to do it on vets orders for weeks when my dog broke a limb and he cried a lot , it was just heartbreaking . It was to allow the limb to heal . I know dogs can be trained to be used to it but I don’t think that makes it right .

I saw that too. If a dog soiled a crate, they would have had to be left in there for hours and hours on end and ignored when they cried to be let out (to relieve themselves). And there is the neglect - it’s not the crate, it’s the owner not responding to their dog’s needs.

My dog would howl if she was left in the house alone for 12 hours, because after that long she would be lonely, hungry and would need to wee (she is trained not to wee in the house so would only do it if she had no choice). It wouldn’t be the house that was cruel, it would be me as an owner neglecting her!

All dogs need a place they can go and chill and know they won’t be disturbed. A crate can work for that, as long as they can get out when they wish.

I was stuck by the other animal cruelty case in NI where a starving Labrador dog was found caught in a window blind after trying to escape from a house.
We have dog licensing here but something still isn't working.
I use a crate for my recently rehomed spaniel but only at night time.Its like any other training tool, it can be misused horribly.

@PoliteSquid sometimes people shoot other people with guns... but that doesn't mean that guns are muderers.

Your argument can be used for many different things/situations, but when there are more than a very few cases of a connection - in your case - between an cage and a dog having great harm done to it, or in my scenario, between a gun and it being used to maim or even kill one or more people, then I'm afraid that your statement holds no water, and therefore, is of no value. Sorry to be so blunt!

So sometimes appropriate action needs to be taken to avoid, or even stop, such sad and/or negative outcomes. In the USA, far too many people believe that it is both their right - which according to their consitition it is - and a neccesity, to be allowed to bear arms for their own personal safety. But that has become a scaringly, toxic, vicious circle, and very difficult to change now.

Crates are fabulous when used properly. My pup came to us already used to a crate, and we had the appropriate size for him. As he grew, we got a much larger crate to allow him to move around, stretch etc. All the way through his chewing stage it was the only way to keep him alive! He was hell bent on chewing cables for a short while until we got him trained out of it. And contrary to some posters views, training can take time and takes longer than 1 day - and leaving this pup unattended all night was a recipe for disaster.

No dog should be in a crate all day (unless the stupid thing has needed an op after damaging his leg and on rest by vet instruction). 8 hours a day I agree is cruel. But no problem for 8 hours or so over night when they are sleeping anyway, or an hour or so here and there to do the school run or supermarket shop. It was certainly the safest option for our wee monster till he could be trusted.

So how could we have cared for our dog after her three knee surgeries, @Happyjoe? The vet told us she wasn’t even allowed to walk round the house without us supporting her hips with a belly band, and if she had run, jumped or slipped, she would have done significant damage to her knee joints.

And obviously, @Poppycorn123, the cage should be the right size for a dog to stand up, stretch and turn around - dh could sit in the cage we used for our dog.

It seems as if the anti-cage brigade will never accept that a dog owner who has used a cage has done so with care, and that they know their dog well enough (better than someone who has never met them), and know that the dog is happy. And they don’t want to accept that there are some circumstances where it is vital for a dog to be in a cage temporarily - following an injury or surgery for example.

Why do people "lock" small children in a cot overnight?

My dog was about 18 months old when she broke her leg and needed an operation. The vet was very strict about how she had to rest and not put weight on her leg and said we needed a crate. My dog was already crate trained and we already had one so that was easy. Dogs don't get the memo about having to keep still or not put weight on a post-op limb though, especially a bouncy young dog.

Dog threads always go the same way on here. People who don't have dogs, or little experience of them thinking they know better than people who do.

Ours was crate trained as a puppy. He's five now and yesterday had to be admitted to the vets with severe pancreatitis. Being comfortable with being in a cage was a god send.

My girl is due to be spayed soon, the vet asked me if she was crate trained.

He was relieved when I said yes, and said she would be far less distressed on the day.

They don't have an answer and they know it's wrong. But they wont admit it because for example it's an inconvenience to them to have a rowdy dog who chews furniture (as puppies have done since the beginning of time) so they lock them in the cage to get some peace. The poor dog is at the owner's mercy as to when they are 'allowed' out. How do you know they arent hungry/thirsty / need the toilet whilst they are restricted. I know if I think I can't get to a toilet the urge becomes worse. We've definitely hit a few nerves here, hopefully if nothing else owners will think twice about the length of time they imprison their dogs.

Because (as I said) we have a dog door to the (fenced in and safe) back garden and she is a dog that would chase a squirrel or cat and bark and wake us and our neighbours up! She goes to bed when we do and again( as I said) she stays in her bed with the door not latched but if we left it unlatched often she might choose to be in the garden overnight which could be antisocial for everyone
additionally - when she had surgery our vet said they were so glad she was used to a crate as they observed her for a few days and dogs that aren’t used to a crate get distressed even more 🤷‍♀️

I really am shocked and saddened to learn how many people on this thread misuse the crates & think it's completely normal & ethical.

As someone who grew up with much loved pet dogs, it's odd to me that previous generations had family dogs and never used or needed cages to train them, but now cages are considered essential by many.

My mum worked part-time, so three days a week we used to leave the dogs out in the dog-proof garden with their toys and their cosy kennel while we were at school, with a short walk in the morning and a long one in the afternoon, and they were perfectly happy running about til we got home - the neighbours would've told us if they weren't!

But I think now that'd be considered cruel (because they were at home alone all day, never mind that they had a big garden to run around in) while locking them in a small cage for hours is considered responsible.

I have not seen anyone on here say they lock their dog up for hours on end and ignore them. Not one.
Bed times do not count.
Again, why do people put babies/toddlers in cots?

Absolutely, I mean the latter is surely a lot more cruel?