Dog crates are cruel

[Poppycorn123]

In light of this terrible story I think they should be banned. Yes people will say they are good for training etc but I think in general they are being overused. A family member would put the dog in it while they have guests. Dog is not vicious or anything, just gets a bit excited as a young dog should. I think this is awful.

Yes, which is precisely why they shouldn’t be banned, because they are appropriate for some dogs. I’m glad we agree!

Bad owners are bad owners but no tool or 'thing' (like a crate) is bad it's how it's used.
I have 4 dogs (3 are rescues)
2 aren't crated (any more)
1 is crated because it's where she feels safe, I don't tend to close it any more unless she's particularly worried about something in which case she prefers it to be closed
1 (my most recent addition) is crated at night and if left because she's currently a danger to herself and potentially my other dogs (not intentionally she just has no sense of self preservation or social skills) - as she settles and is learning she'll get more freedom until she also doesn't need to be in a crate but we aren't there yet.
Used appropriately crate training can hugely benefit both the dog and owner

Because some dogs chew things and some dogs don’t.

Ah, I've never had them that young - only kittens that are fully weaned.

One of my labs when young ate a cat flap - trying to get at the cat food in the utility room I think. Well she wrenched it out the door and chomped it into pieces. My other one chewed through her plastic dog bed, chewed a hole in the sofa base, and chewed a hole in the wall - trying to get to the bin. And that’s with them being caged till age two when I went out. Thank god for cages.

Seeing as you enjoyed that so much here's something else to be sarky about:

"2X puppies"

Puppies is plural, so at least 2 puppies. That means you have a minimum of 4 puppies.

I'm sure what you meant was "I have two puppies", but for some reason people have started to use an unnecessary x here lately.

Who actually says "I've got two times puppies"?

We rescued two kittens when they were 4-5 weeks old and we used a massive cage (crate) for them when we had to leave them unattended. They were so tiny and did chew on things. After a few weeks they stopped and we could leave them in a closed room when we went out.

I have no issue calling a crate a cage. Still happily used it for my dog no matter what it was called.

There does seem to be a weird standard for owning a pet on here. So you have to be able to afford all the expenses that comes with a pet, but cannot leave the house at all for work or anything else so you can watch this pet 24/7.

As a training tool I don’t mind them, keeping puppies safe from getting into trouble overnight or dogs that need rest from injury etc.

I think adult dogs shouldn’t need them and would never crate mine. I think they should be free to move around and sleep where they like at night to be comfortable. I don’t like the argument that they choose to be there, if that’s the case just leave the door open then and allow free choice.

Ours has a crate in the kitchen and has had since a pup , he goes in there when we are busy in the kitchen (by choice) and sometimes if he wants some peace and quiet. He is very very rarely locked in - usually only if a stranger comes into the house to say look at an odd job and only for five minutes

I don’t understand how one can crate a dog. Both our puppies were so miserable in crates we just couldn't use them.

We rehomed a dog who'd been "crate trained" to the point he couldn't be left unsupervised out of the crate as he's destroy everything he could get to. He was so hyperactive and actually seemed "crazy" and I'm sure it was the stress and boredom of being confined for long hours while the previous owner was out. She said they couldn't let him out the crate as he was destructive. We had a really difficult transition period with him to get him used to being out of the crate but not ransacking our house, but we got there in the end. I believe it was pent up energy that was why he was being destructive so the crate stopped the destruction, but made his "issues" worse, so the crate ended up being used far more frequently in his old home. After a long few months of lots of exercise, and building up his "freedom" by letting him be loose in rooms with less stuff to damage, he gradually became less destructive, and within a year, we never had any more destructive incidents. When we got our other dog, we got a crate so he had his own safe space away from the others, but we never shut the door, it was just his own little zone the other bigger dogs couldn't get into. He loved it though and would often take himself to his crate for some quiet time. We've also used crates when travelling with dogs in the car on long journeys. So I do think crates have their place, but can often be abused by lazy dog owners who don't want to deal with training undesirable behaviour out of their dogs.

Have you got anything useful to add to this thread apart from pulling apart someone's grammar?

I'm sure they can be mis-used lik anything but I also know that my rescue dog adores her crate. It's big with a comfy bed in and it's her safe space. The door is left open and she takes herself in and out all day long and sometimes will sleep there at night rather than come upstairs to our room. Used correctly they are really good. Sometimes if we have people over or there is a lot going on we close the door and she's quite content. She knows nothing can bother her in there it's her space and hers alone.

Too many people use them to contain their dog, while they're out and such like. I think they're just unnecessary. I've trained three dogs (all family pets) without the need of a cage, all three of them chose their own quiet space.

Those dogs died of neglect and would have died whether they were crated or not. I remember a few years ago an awful story of some dogs who died after being locked in a shed. Sheds aren’t evil though, it’s the owners who neglected them.

Our dog loves her crate so we’ve never gotten rid of it, but we never really ‘crate trained’ her, we just had it in case we felt it was needed. She went straight in it on her own accord the day we brought her home and she chooses to sleep in it most nights (the door is left unlocked so she can come and go as she pleases). She often takes herself off to her crate for some peace and quiet when she’s had enough of people, I think she definitely sees it as a den/safe space. It was especially useful after her operation to allow her to rest in peace and help the kids understand that she needed to be left to recover.

I don’t particularly like the way some people use crates, but it’s not the crates themselves that are the problem. If you’re going to get a puppy you kind of have to accept that some chewing will occur and there will be some toilet accidents, I think some people use crates excessively to try and bypass this, but unfortunately it’s just part of having a dog.

YOUR puppies. not all puppies. Mine never even so much as whined.

Likely down to how you introduce them to it. Any time I've had a new pet I've slept on the couch a couple of nights until they feel comfortable in a new environment.

Oh, yes.

Crates are not intrinsically cruel, a lot of owners utilise them in a way in which dogs feel safe and comfortable.

The people in the news story are vile, criminal, animal abusers and should be inhumanely euthanised.

Basically the same as all the other right-minded responders really.

My dog takes herself off to bed in her crate when she’s tired or doesn’t want to be bothered, I don’t generally lock the door but I can and it’s come in useful when for example a glass was dropped and I needed her to be safe, or when she had to stay at the vets overnight.

If they are the right size and used appropriately they are useful for owner and a safe space for her dog, like everything else if they are misused then bad things can happen. Sounds like those owners were abusive.

I have cats but from what I have seen from my friends who have dogs, crates are used to keep puppies safe at night or encourage nap time and then as a safe space for adult dogs...sometimes the crate is in a quieter place in the house or covered in a blanket so that the dog can take itself away.

Obviously I have heard of people leaving them in crates all day to go to work and I agree this is wrong but don't think that means they should be banned as these people would just find another way.

leave the door open ... and allow free choice.

Most of the crate users here specifically state that that is exactly what they do.

Precisely. Crates are for pups and youngsters who wouldn’t be safe or trustworthy otherwise. I don’t know of anyone who contains an adult dog in a crate. Apart from a few cases in the paper, most dogs in the uk are thoroughly spoilt and pampered. As a nation we go the other way entirely. My dogs have expensive raw food, sleep on a sofa and get lotion massaged into their elbows every evening followed by a biscuit, they live like queen bees. But were they crated till age two, when I was out? Hell yes.

Adult dogs sometimes need to go in a cage, @Hellohelga - when our pointer cross rescue needed three knee operations (repair of two ruptured cruciates and then repair of a dislocated kneecap) she had to be on cage rest for 6-12 weeks after each operation. We had to stop her running, jumping, or slipping on the floor because it would have ruined the surgery. In all, she was on cage rest for nearly half a year, but it was what her vets told us we had to do.

We use a crate and when we say “off to bed” our dog toddles off and gets inside and it has happened more than once that the kids haven’t latched the door at night so she could come out but she doesn’t until we say good morning and give a scratch to her ears - we never use it as punishment though - once during a rowdy Christmas gathering she took herself off to her crate so we assume she likes it - it’s her bedroom that all - we like it as we have a dog door and wouldn’t want her to have the option to be out in the back garden at night time ( chasing squirrels or cats and barking)
depends on the people I think - the guy who mistreated those dogs might have done it in a different way without a crate - some people shouldn’t have dogs - it’s not the crates fault

Another one of those things that well, we just didn't need before and don't need now. Just train a dog.

We have never needed a crate. But there's always one or two people WFH (each supervised by one or more of the dogs) and our dogs (even the large ones) all sleep with us so just come up to bed at night. We have had to manage a post op dog, but just had them on a lead and someone sleeping on a mattress on the floor with them.