AIBU to wonder whether ADHD is normal and society is the issue

[LadyBeatriceBeaHiggins]

No offence intended

Discussing about Adhd with a friend who has Adhd and we wondered what if Adhd is naturally a part of being human and its the way society trys to make humans into machines that is the problem ?

so figured id open up our debate for fellow mumsnetters

Medical misogyny is demonstrably real. The amount of women in middle aged getting ADHD diagnosis could be down to being ignored as girls but I also wonder could it be down to societal misogyny that gives us a thousand balls in the air and says, 'if you drop one you have a disorder'. Even in the past 50 years our expectations for women have increased rapidly, not just working while keeping a home but now never letting our children out of our sight and giving us no family connections and no "village"

But these days everything is overthought and anxiety is blamed and used as an excuse so on earth would a village work now

If you're including medication in support strategies then I agree. I took it as meaning things like organisational strategies which don't address the root cause.

I think adhd is actually completely normal and is our bodies' response to this crazy society.

But it's already pretty well understood. I don't think there's much ambiguity. In my case it was likely caused by being born very premature.

It doesn't make sense to me that finding it extremely hard to get motivated is some natural state that doesn't fit with today's world. It would've been much worse having ADHD in previous centuries. Today we have so many inventions we take for granted that help us with mundane stuff. Back then you really needed to be able to graft.

Like, not having things like washing machines would've meant a lot more work for people and I always hate doing that kind of stuff as is. It would've been way worse!

I'd disagree with society stopping them. It's the procrastination, poor decision making and executive disfunction that is crippling. That's not society's fault, that's the way the brain is functioning.

It would be interesting to know if the is a link between DA and ADHD. I suspect it makes you more vulnerable to it.

Is that because of averages though and including suicide, death by drug addicitions/alcohol rather than the condition itself?

Totally agree with this. I am highly suspicious of the amount of women in their 50s that are now being diagnosed with ADHD and ASD rather than the recognitiion of just how damaging menopause is at this time of life. It wont account for every single woman with a new diagnosis but I think its just a continuation of the dismissal of 'womens problems'

If we admit that a huge number of prison inmates are autistic/ adhd / mentally ill then they are people you would expect to die younger than expected from risky behaviour, drugs, alcohol.
Why all inmates aren’t tested and medicated I don’t know when it costs £40,000 a year to keep someone in prison. Our useless governments.

If you are diagnosed at 50 with adhd then the psychiatrist has 50 years of life to use for diagnosis. You don’t go to the doc and say for the last few years I’ve been anxious and can’t sleep I’m adhd. I’ve had a lifetime of insomnia and the medical notes to show that, plus many other adhd signs -at last I am on carefully prescribed sleeping pills Hallelooyah!! And now have the info to sort out my health and deal with adhd symptoms - if only I could start my life over again but at least I am looking forward to my future

Complete nonsense,ADHD is under diagnosed in this country.Waitlists on the NHS are insanely long and private is expensive. The NHS Taskforce has highlighted the need to make NHS diagnoses more accessible for all.

The medical misogyny is women and girls being shut out of the diagnosis process for years and the minute the door is opened they’re written off as deluded or given a BPD diagnosis instead.

ND has run through my family for generations( we’ve got a family historian), trust me when I say being in a less loud / constant world didn’t help much.

Psychiatrist Sami Timimi has been saying this for a while.

https://www.samitimimi.co.uk/

I teach send children however and there are clearly extreme cases where adhd medication is genuinely life changing. I’ve also seen the same in my extremely ADD but very intelligent niece - she wouldn’t be at uni without it. But she wasn’t functioning at school and school put the referral in.

But I broadly agree. It’s been suggested in myself and I’d probably score on an assessment (and would have done when younger too). But I’m not sure of the point now. And have enough physical conditions to provide reasons for fluctuating concentration and fatigue.

This is exactly what my therapist said.

My anxiety is definitely made worse by the fact that there isn't much inherent danger in life now. My brain constantly needs to be working, thinking about something and whirring away. I'm never thinking about nothing and I can never relax.

This seems to have resulted in my brain choosing completely bizarre things to worry about and finding danger in things where there is none.

If I was constantly focusing on where my next meal was coming from, how I was going to keep my cave warm and how to keep wolves away I don't think my brain would feel the need to convince itself to worry about stupid things.

A colleague who was recently diagnosed (and I’d definitely say fits all the stereotypes) has also commented that if he’d lived in the past, when society was less complex and probably more physical, and zero technology, he feels he probably wouldn’t have the issues he has.

Though it’s highly likely he’d find other avenues of issue such as gambling and drinking.

imo it’s if it bothers you and you have the psychological issues alongside it. I have a relative who is utter chaos and a whirlwind personified, never sits still, but has zero MH issues and despite extreme dyslexia has been very successful in life.

My executive function has always been crap and menopause has made it much worse. Can’t take hrt due to breast cancer. I find that strict routines, cbt and exercise helps which is exactly what helps most of the pupils I teach who have adhd and do not have medication.

Medication doesn’t suit everyone. It can come with difficult side effects, not least weight loss. I can’t afford to loose muscle mass as have osteoponenia. I do find resistance training and eating appropriately really helps my concentration. But it easily gets knocked.

This sound extremely familiar.

I do have ocd. But internal if that makes sense. I don’t hand wash etc. And can easily be ruminating on something very interesting. But entirely irrelevant to getting the house sorted or what ever is actually needed right now.

It would be interesting to know if the is a link between DA and ADHD. I suspect it makes you more vulnerable to it.

There is a link between disabilities and DA in general. If someone has a disability they are inherently more vunerable, as they struggle more to get away from an abusive partner as they are likely to be more dependent on them for either physical, practical or emotional support.

I think da Vinci is a poor example, as someone who was famously a polymath across a whole range of different disciplines from engineering to fresco-making, architecture and weapon design — the reason he left lots of unfinished work is in part because he worked for a series of different patrons in a vast range of different jobs, who were either changing their minds about commissions, falling from power, or sending him off on a trip to do something unrelated, plus he had a series of strokes before his death, limiting his painting ability.

Dyslexia affects all communication, it’s not just about reading.

It also affects thought and speech patterns away from linear to interconnected.

This would have affected people even prior to when humans had verbal communication and sign language. So millions of years.

I was down to being ignored as girls. As with all disorders, the profile is first generated on a male template.

I dislike intensely how you are implying there is some kind of over diagnosis of ADHD in middle aged women when that is the exact opposite of the truth.

Completely agree. Most thinking that an ND condition would have been fine in history or prehistory are not really thinking through the difficulties of life then. We tend to romanticise or over simplify the past. In addition, ND people would have been the natural human sacrifices, witches or others killed by their clan for not fitting in.

I think the key thing with these kind of discussions is where you set the line between “neurotypical” and “ADHD” because at the end of the day, there will always be people who have some traits but don’t quite meet the diagnosis threshold, and others that just get over the threshold and are considered to have “mild” ADHD.

We could, imo, consider some cases as normal variation and that modern life simply isn’t ideal for a lot of humans which means that more and more end up in a situation where they experience difficulties. This is especially true of some children with an ADHD diagnosis who seem to have minimal difficulties outside of sitting and focusing in a classroom. The education system in this country is developmentally inappropriate but the child is seen as the problem. The social model of disability is useful to consider for such cases.

However, having my own child with very severe combined ADHD, as well as complex autism and other needs… my child’s problems wouldn’t disappear if society was set up for more diversity of brains, thinking styles and behaviours. We’d have struggled to keep my child alive when we still lived in caves or at any other point in human history because of the level of impulsivity, hyperactivity, inattention etc. Yes there are other needs but the ADHD medication makes it infinitely easier to keep child physically safe so the ADHD is a very significant factor.

Sometimes when people have these discussions they don’t really acknowledge the existence of more severe and/or complex cases, where people would have significant difficulties even if society changed in a way that made the challenges of many of the less extreme cases essentially disappear.

Sometimes people with very complex neurodivergence are just forgotten when late-diagnosed adults who have a very different experience (I am one, so I’m not invalidating others’ experiences, just asking that people remember that some people are massively disabled by these conditions but due to the nature of their needs are not typically part of the conversation) sit and discuss a condition. And it’s important that they aren’t forgotten.

Completely disagree. I think it is the worst kind of regressive medical misogyny to chalk up everything medical to women’s hormones/biology. It isn’t dismissal of women’s problems when there is some minor overlap in symptoms. It most likely women of this age are both menopausal and have ADHD. They would not be diagnosed if they weren’t struggling more than menopause can cause or in ways not related to menopause.

More likely your OCD would find new things to worry about. Like hmm heavy rain, is the river going to flood and wash away all my fish traps? Then I will have to go find the wood and make the grass twine for new ones, can I do that without risking no dried smoked fish for winter? What if the flood washes too many fish away and there are none! Will I have to look for another place for winter? And that was some crazy wind and noises last night and the moon was unusually large, is there a plague coming?

Most ancient superstitions..like a bird flying across your path meaning death if you don’t change your path imho might come from the OCD intrusive thoughts.

I think than extent yes. Looking at how they assess for these things we are all guilty of having EF issues because we are tired. My job when I started 10 years ago is less mentally demanding now because we are always changing things so rapidly and trying to achieve this with the same resources. Life admin has increased. Even trying to log in and buy something online can have multiple steps now. Phoning a company to get something sorted takes an hour. Parenting expectations have increased massively and our kids are expected to act like adults in school whilst being treated like young kids. I have a SEND child and navigating the system is frustrating and bureaucratic and setup to not give you support, not give you support, so that's another layer of admin and stress.

People you care about also get ill and die, or need your advocacy, but demands don't change elsewhere.

I think there is too much 'life' for our brains to cope with sometimes. I don't think our brains are designed for this.

That said my son has this diagnosis as wellas others. It is very severe. I don't think a less complicated life would take the ADHD away, but I do think society needs a simpler life in general as people are struggling with it.