People who believe in ghosts

[Sheandhercat]

MIL came back from a trip to Edinburgh and told us of a “really spooky” thing that happened that MUST have been a ghost because there’s no other explanation. She was walking in a field, no other people around, and she got a whiff of strong rose perfume. That’s it. She said that plus another occasion where her cat was looking at something on the wall when there wasn’t anything there have her convinced that ghosts are real.

I try not to engage in these conversations with my opinion really because people can believe in whatever they want to and it’s pointless getting into a debate about it, because if someone’s already made up their mind it’s hard to convince them otherwise. But she asked me if I’d ever had anything happen and I said no I don’t believe in ghosts. This lead to a conversation where she just kept saying “well go on then, give me one possible explanation for the perfume if it’s not a ghost!” And I was giving explanations that she just wouldn’t accept. How does someone think it’s impossible that someone was around wearing perfume and the wind was just wafting the smell over, but it’s perfectly plausible and OBVIOUS that perfume has transcended into the afterlife and a ghost is the only possible option?!

even if there was no possible explanation I could think of, I still wouldn’t jump to “it must be a ghost” I’d just accept that I don’t know the answer. I don’t understand why it HAS to be a ghost when it just makes no sense. I’m just curious, how many people actually believe in ghosts and why?

I'm a logic and reason person, as such I think the theist position is more plausible than the atheist. The idea that creation didn't play a part in our being seems more far fatched than the idea that creation did play a part.

Anyway, I've never saw a ghost. I recall one or two bizarre experiences as a child that could've been supernatural. In the mid late 80's, CB radios were very popular and you sometimes picked up people's CB chats as interference on car radios/wireless radios. I have a very clear memory of my sister and I hearing what we at first presumed was CB interference on our record player speakers (it wasn't until some years later it occured to me that there was no radio, it was just a record player). It was a young man's voice, and we asked him a couple of questions through the speaker (!😂), which he answered (he told us the colour of his sweatshirt, and that he wore glasses). Now I was about 5, so its possible this memory is seriously skewed. I don't think it is though, it's remained very clear in my mind.

My husband saw what would seem to have been a ghost many years ago, he's entirely sceptic so hasn't ever accepted it was a ghost he saw. I don't either, not entirely, but the circumstances of it didn't offer any other reasonable explanation.

I agree that we don't understand everything about how the universe works.

I just think the explanations are scientific rather than supernatural.

Ok. Lots don't, lots do. It doesn't actually matter anyway, because a person who has made up their mind that no evidence can exist of ghosts will not believe any evidence presented.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that recordings of the paranormal exist. I'm saying that trying to claim categorically that none do is, honestly, a bit nonsensical and rather dogmatic.

I lived in a haunted house growing up, people, especially children' would 'see,' the girl that died in the house, objects flung about. Never experienced it anywhere else but that house, it wasn't frightening at all, just normal in that house

Right. All of the above. And sometimes they can act maliciously, or at least absolutely cluelessly thanks to their own bias. Scientists gave us lobotomies, and scientists lie too.

That's not to say I reject science, or live my life questioning even the most basic things, I just don't have the blind faith in some vague idea of "science" that so many credulous people seem to have.

I can assure you that if there were proof, I'd believe it. I'm actually very open minded to changing my mind and do so all the time... but I need logical, rational proof... or at least logical, rational theories/arguments.

Can I ask you, in turn, are you open to being persuaded that ghosts are not real? or are you stuck in your mindset?

I don't need to "believe in ghosts" I've seen them, heard them, and felt them on several occasions- what other proof could I possibly need?

We now have proof that lobotomies don't work, and are harmful. The scientific community learnt from that and adapted.

Scientists experiment and make mistakes. They learn from them. This is not proof that science can't be trusted, rather that it is fallable and subject to change.

I guess, none for yourself...but I've never seen one... so if you want me to believe, that's where you need the proof.

It blows my mind how many people believe in ghosts. Crazy.

You think it's logical that a giant man created the universe out of nothing? How did he get there?

No, I don't expect anyone who hasn't seen/heard ghosts to believe,and I'm not interested in proving it, but that doesn't change the fact I have.

As others have said I believe our senses likely only portrait a fraction of the “reality” that is out there. We don’t know what we cannot perceive. It is clear to me that people experience things that cannot be explained by our current understanding of the world. It’s also clear that our understanding of the world through classical physics is incomplete (eg through our clearly limited understanding of quantum physics.

We have tried to describe these experiences using the language available to us and have ascribed labels (ghosts, UFOs, alien, etc) in an attempt to understand these experiences. I don’t know if ghosts are real as we have defined them but I do know there is a whole lot that we don’t yet understand. If someone has an unusual experience and feels the concept of a “ghost” is the best way they can understand and describe what’s happened then who am I to assert that their conclusions are right or wrong? They are doing their best to understand and describe something that cannot really be explained in the context of our current of the world. I believe any conclusions drawn are likely incomplete but everyone is doing their best to make sense of their own experiences.

I do think you were being pretty pedantic to insist that MIL doesn’t “know” it was a ghost. Obviously no one knows anything, our understanding of the nature of reality is pretty limited, but she’s drawing conclusions about her experiences the best she can so surely you’d just accept that?

if you say so

People don’t understand that human brains aren’t as sophisticated as they think they are. You brain can and does play tricks on you. Your brain isn’t that reliable for some things.

This is a truly daft response. Trying to think how to explain things to you.

I can assure you, plenty of people say there is proof. And of all the milliions of people on the earth who have claimed this, you are rejecting all of that. You couldn't possibly even examine all the evidence that's available if you lived a hundred lifetimes.

And that's fine, of course, it doesn't matter, we're all entitled to our beliefs. Yours is that ghosts don't exist. It doesn't matter to me, at all, that you need to believe that.

Nowhere have I said ghosts are defnitely real, so please try to stop reading things from such a biased viewpoint. Of course I would be open to the entire secrets of the universe being cracked open for me - not very likely is it?

I won't get to know if God is real, if there's an afterlife or what actually constitutes supernatural activities until I die, or perhaps at that point I will just rot and turn to worm food. I am able to accept that the universe is unknowable. Many are clearly not. But I also know what I have experienced, and realise that those experiences are outwith the natural order that we expect.

That's all that supernatural means - outwith the natural order, inexplicable with our current knowledge.

Ghosts and the supernatural and all things outside your own experience are, in fact, totally natural - they just haven't been explained yet and are very unlikely to be in the next few decades before I die 😆 And in your tiny, limited body with limited senses you can only experience limited things, as can I.

I don't need to dogmatically reject or believe in anything. You really need to stop imagining your viewpoint "I'm right and everyone else who disagrees with me is wrong" is the viewpoint of other people - at least for me, it's not.

As I said, several times on this thread, he only logical position is "I don't know". I have had my own experiences and would love to know for sure what they all meant, but I don't need or expect anyone else to agree with or believe in anything I say.

I do know this however, to pretend humans could possibly understand or even experience a tiny fraction of how the universe works from inside our limited shells is a comfort mechanism, not a reality.