To let my niece stay when she refuses to see her mum?

[ShadowShapes]

My sister has 2 children, my niece is 20 and my nephew is only 10 months, so a huge age gap. They have different fathers.

My niece is at university and since my sister had the baby, my niece has refused to spend holidays at home, preferring to stay in her uni city with friends. My sister isn’t happy with this but has had to accept it. My niece has told her that she doesn’t want anything to do with her or the baby. She thinks her mum is mad for having another child. My sister and partner have been together for 5 years and he moved in when my niece was 17. My niece got on ok with him but didn’t like him living with them.

My niece planned to stay in her uni city for summer but asked if she can spend the summer with us a couple of weeks ago. I said she could but that she should tell her mum. She did and my sister said we shouldn’t let her stay with us and we will make things worse.

My niece came to us last week and my sister is angry. I said that I am being neutral but that I will speak to my niece about how she’s feeling and try to help them sort out their relationship. My sister thinks I should tell her that she can’t stay with us but I’ve said she will always be welcome here. My niece is such a nice person but she is adamant she wants nothing to do with her mum, her partner or the new baby.

I feel really in the middle but my niece is still really young and I wasn’t going to turn her away. I’ve tried to put myself in my sisters shoes but it’s difficult as I can’t imagine having another child now and how my children would feel about that.

I’m going to let her stay but going forward what would you do? I’ve suggested to my niece that her mum comes for a coffee or to meet for a walk with or without the baby to try to sort things out but my niece isn’t interested. She just seems to be getting on with her life and seems happy without her mum in it. She helps around the house, gets on well with my children who are also home from uni, goes out with friends and is working. It’s like she has just wiped her mum out of her life, They had a good relationship until her mums partner moved in. She says she feels her mum put him first and although her partner is ok, she didn’t like living with another person.

I think it is so difficult to understand the dynamics of these relationships which cross the boundaries of the nuclear family into the complexities of the extended family.

Your situation and @ShadowShapes situation and the situation of my family and my nieces are difficult to understand without experience. And none of us would wish our experience on others because there is so much pain.

For PPs to put it down to spoilt behaviour, selfishness, being a brat, to accuse OP of taking sides, to hope that writing a letter,
to suggest that OP keep her sister updated and so on and on, show levels of empathy and concern and offer well meaning advice, but understanding is also needed as to the extent of how damaging these situations are and how traumatised a young person must be to come to these profound decisions and to put up such boundaries.

We try to do the best we can as aunties and sisters. My priority though is to provide a safe space for my nieces, to do so I do have to set boundaries for my sister. I am also capable of having a good relationship with my sister.

Am pretty sure the OP can handle that. Was in a similar situation with my brother and my parents. They both talked (moaned) to me about the other and I just didn't pass on what was said, it's quite simple keeping quiet.

You are making that up

OP wrote that the sister dated quite a lot but none serious enoughtto introduce to her dd. But when she met the new man when dd was about 15 he had virtually moved into the home a few weeks later. After he moved in the sister no longer thought dd needed 1:1 time so the dd from 16 didn't have private time with her mum because her mother prioritised the new bf

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ShadowShapes · Yesterday 23:39
She isn’t at all. When my sister met her partner, she introduced him very quickly to my niece. He was staying over most nights within weeks so almost living there and then properly moved in after about 15 months. My niece would ask to do things with my sister and she always invited her partner along.

and at
ShadowShapes · Today 00:46
My sister ... didn’t see why it made a difference that her partner tagged along when they did things,

I would support your niece. Sounds like she needs family.

Your sister prioritised her new partner over her own daughter and now she wants her to play happy families. Shame on her.

Regardless of the reasons behind the issues in their relationship, until those are resolved, your sister should be grateful that your niece has a safe place to stay with family.

Trying to limit your niece's options by telling you not to let her stay with you seems like a symptom of the wider problem, rather than a solution to it.

This

Your sister has messed up and in her position I would want you to look out for your niece. The difficulty could be for your niece when uni ends and friendships change, some people will move back home but she hasn’t got that option. In time she may change her mind. It was your nieces home too but your sister deserves to live her life but maybe went round it the wrong way. I think you need to keep communicating with your niece she only has one mum/family etc, try and stay neutral.

this. precisely

sounds like she thinks that that mum is not worth having.

I think you're doing the right thing. The issues are between your sister and her child. I'd do the same for my niece & nephews. We all need family to help when situations are difficult. She's lucky to have you.

I think your sister needs to accept that she's changed their relationship and that's on her.

Gosh, I also had something very similar happen. I was around the same age and about to go back to a levels. She moved a man in with not even any prior warning at all. I had a younger sibling a few years younger than me and I definitely don’t think she gave any thought to either of us, tbh. Although, I genuinely don’t know how much of it was him pushing for it. I didn’t like him in the first place - he was older and definitely a “woman’s place” type twat. I was - and still am - very outspoken about that kind of thing and it was made very clear that I didn’t like the way he treated her, although my mother just let it happen. I can’t go into any more details because they would be incredibly outing. I literally walked out of the house the day she announced he was moving in, which was the actual day she moved him in. I walked out immediately. I had nowhere to go, and had no idea what that meant for continuing my education, it didn’t seem possible as I had to find somewhere to live and some way to pay for it. I was “lucky” that I found someone willing to rent a room to me.
It was just yet another thing that further changed my relationship with my mother, unfortunately. I think there was a catalogue of decisions made over the years that I would never have made . As a parent to a now adult child (this happened to me must’ve been 35+ years ago now), I swore I would never do anything like this. And I didn’t. I put my child first and have just never fully understood it. I have my ideas and thoughts on it, but, I just don’t get any of it. We are totally different people. Thats not to say she wasn’t a good mother when we were younger. We were brought up well, good morals etc, but then…this.
I think you definitely are doing the right thing by letting her stay and trying to stay as “neutral” as it’s possible to be. Nobody can predict what will happen between them in the future, but likely even if they do start talking it will probably never be the same, close relationship that they had when niece was younger.
It’s sad when this happens, and it does make you wonder why these choices are made. I would not try and force a meeting between the two of them, for what it’s worth b

I think you are being a very kind aunt to your niece

I think it especially nasty of the sister to try to intervene and sabotage the relationship that her dd has with other relatives because she is feeling vindictive. The only person making things worse is your sister.

At 17, I would have hated a new man moving into my house.

It all sounds very tricky. You sound like you're doing a vital job by supporting your niece and enabling her to remain part of the extended family and hopefully your sister will see that in time.

I feel for all of you. Your sister clearly thought about things and tried (not introducing a partner for 10 years is a big deal. That's a long time to be lonely). But then i can see it coming as even more of a shock to your poor niece when suddenly she was expected to share her mum, and it all happened quite fast.

I really hope things improve over time for you all. 'Going NC' from family you are pissed off at seems to be fashionable at the moment but I find it really sad and unnecessarily extreme. Unless someone is abusive it seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Its not common to meet other people in life who genuinely care about you as if you were family.

Unless your sister can acknowledge her daughters feelings its difficult to see how they will be able to move forward. Telling someone they have no right to their feelings (seems to be the vibe from your sister to get daughter, even if it's not been said explicitly) is rarely a successful strategy to mending a relationship.

@ShadowShapes Had a similar situation with a niece.
Difference is we were viewed as a safe place she could stay so the parents thought it ok. Better than saying no and an unsafe alternative

How is this what you've got out of OP's post?

I feel for both of them. Your sister has a right to have a life, a love, a partner, and to want more children. Your niece seems to want her mum to always put her first - to choose her over her partner, to pay for her uni rather than pay to have another child. Your niece feels pushed out and your sister feels punished for wanting a life beyond being niece's mum. The thing is, niece would have grown up in any case, moved out, slowly reduced contact as she lived her own life, leaving her mum increasingly alone. You sister didn't fancy that future, and who can blame her?

I think you are in a difficult position but, essentially, your relationship with each of your niece and sister are independent of each other and there is no reason why your niece shouldn’t come and stay with you. You are not required to take sides.

Just be clear with both of them that you are not getting involved, that you love them both, and that their relationship is for them to navigate and negotiate.

An adolescent is absolutely dependant on their parent(s)to be emotionally present and supportive for secure emotional attachment- a sense of security so that they can go out into the world knowing they are safe to develop new relationships, become independent and grow up safely.

At this point your sister brought in a new man, made him the focus of her attention and effectively stopped being the secure connection her daughter needed.

Its unfortunate as obviously your sister deserves to be happy and have a new relationship, and was probably in a hurry to have another child before she got too old, but her timing was not good for her daughter: first a new man was the priority, then a baby and over a relatively short time the girl went from the very first to a poor third.

People forget the reality of child development. Adolescents might look like young adults but their brains are in turmoil and they need to feel safe and secure in their relationships with at least one parent in their teens and early twenties even more than when a little younger. Blended families are often in my experience blind-sided by this, the older children being less accepting and more upset that the younger ones who superficially are more affected. Its the same with parental loss- it can affect a teen harder than a younger child.

Your sister is entitled to be upset at her daughters behaviour, but making demands on her daughter won't work. Maybe when second child is older they will be able to develop a better relationship, but its going to involve some reconciliation work, not demands or forced behaviour. Everyone needs to acknowledge each other feelings are real whether they agree with them or not.

You and your niece sound to have a lovely relationship and its also good that she does have a secure base with a loving adult as she continues to grow up. if you do what your sister wants it will only damage the relationship with your niece for both you and your sister .

Let niece stay and keep as neutral as possible with both of them. Your relationship with the niece is independent of how she feels about her mum. Tell your sister that you love her but be clear that you can't make her daughter do what she wants and sister can't tell you what to do in your own relationships

Brutally, you sister has discarded her daughter in favour of her new partner.

Perhaps they will make it up one day.

You are under no obligation to punish your neice.

The sister had a responsibility towards an existing child rather than having another baby for new partner in her 40s. She denied any money for her existing child to better herself in life through higher education so she could have IVF with a new partner. I think that's an irresponsible choice and of course it cause resentment. She made her existing child's life harder to have a baby with a man her existing kid didn't like. She chose a second family and fuck the first.

Those choices have consequences. Niece wants nothing to do with mom and has gone no contact. I see why.

I also wonder if the sister here was hoping for niece to be built in childcare.

I definitely think you’re doing the right thing by having your niece to stay. I think you should tell your sister that it’s not making anything worse because your niece has said that if she can’t stay with you, then she’ll remain in her uni location. All you’re doing is trying to make sure that she doesn’t think you’re taking sides, so she maintains a relationship with the rest of the family and there’s a way back in the future, if she decides that’s what she wants. Your sister needs to understand that your niece is not going to come crawling back to her even if she does manage to cut off access to the rest of the wider family. Also, it does sound a bit like an attempt at punishing her. Like if she won’t come home to your sister, then your sister will ensure she doesn’t get to benefit from having aunts and cousins.

Obviously none of us know what sort of man your sister’s partner is, but even if he were genuinely lovely, your sister had spent your niece’s entire life giving her all of her attention and then, overnight, shutting it off and only spending time with her if this man was there. Of course your sister is entitled to a life and if she wants another child, your niece doesn’t get a veto on that decision. But what did your sister think was going to happen? Even now, as an adult, how would she feel if one of your parents got a new partner and refused to see her without them also being there? It would upset anyone, let alone a teenager.

Are you completely sure your sister isn't being controlled by her partner? I just wonder.