To let my niece stay when she refuses to see her mum?

[ShadowShapes]

My sister has 2 children, my niece is 20 and my nephew is only 10 months, so a huge age gap. They have different fathers.

My niece is at university and since my sister had the baby, my niece has refused to spend holidays at home, preferring to stay in her uni city with friends. My sister isn’t happy with this but has had to accept it. My niece has told her that she doesn’t want anything to do with her or the baby. She thinks her mum is mad for having another child. My sister and partner have been together for 5 years and he moved in when my niece was 17. My niece got on ok with him but didn’t like him living with them.

My niece planned to stay in her uni city for summer but asked if she can spend the summer with us a couple of weeks ago. I said she could but that she should tell her mum. She did and my sister said we shouldn’t let her stay with us and we will make things worse.

My niece came to us last week and my sister is angry. I said that I am being neutral but that I will speak to my niece about how she’s feeling and try to help them sort out their relationship. My sister thinks I should tell her that she can’t stay with us but I’ve said she will always be welcome here. My niece is such a nice person but she is adamant she wants nothing to do with her mum, her partner or the new baby.

I feel really in the middle but my niece is still really young and I wasn’t going to turn her away. I’ve tried to put myself in my sisters shoes but it’s difficult as I can’t imagine having another child now and how my children would feel about that.

I’m going to let her stay but going forward what would you do? I’ve suggested to my niece that her mum comes for a coffee or to meet for a walk with or without the baby to try to sort things out but my niece isn’t interested. She just seems to be getting on with her life and seems happy without her mum in it. She helps around the house, gets on well with my children who are also home from uni, goes out with friends and is working. It’s like she has just wiped her mum out of her life, They had a good relationship until her mums partner moved in. She says she feels her mum put him first and although her partner is ok, she didn’t like living with another person.

Of course, what else?

Breaking off all contact forever merely because her mother dares to continue a life of her own is absurdly self-centred and destructive.

Your niece is a brat

This. I’m Team Niece too. Your sisters actions, while not deliberate, were thoughtless and selfish, and I can totally see why your niece feels the way she does. Be there for her and help keep the comms channels open. As your niece gets older she may be more accommodating about your sisters view of things. She may not of course. Your sister needs to take a serious look at herself and her actions and ask herself why her daughter feels like she does.

Team niece here. Your sister decided to dance all over your nieces boundaries at a difficult age mid a levels. Your sister is completely unreasonable to expect you to not let your niece stay. Blending families needs to be done carefully over time, your sister has been an idiot.

Well that's exactly my point. You have no idea how the woman actually treats her daughter

I think it's obvious your niece felt pushed out at 17 - your sister should have made the effort to do things with her without her partner present and should have understood that was what your niece needed and wanted.
But that was in the past and I also think your niece is being too extreme by cutting her off altogther. Also, the decision your sister made to have another baby should not cause this much offence - your niece is growing up and setting out on her own life and your sister is entitled to have a baby if she chooses.
Her staying in her uni town isn't upsetting as lots of students do that, my son included - he preferred to stay with friends as much as possible. But coming back to stay with you instead of your sister is a snub, so it's understandable she feels hurt.
The only way forward is really to talk and for your niece to start making amends with her mum, even if that means meeting her every now and then and not staying with her. I think letting her stay is ok, but only if you are working towards getting her to do that and making her have conversations about it.

'My sister thinks it’s fine as she waited til my niece was over 16 to move him in and that my niece was starting to live her own life, was out with friends a lot and was planning on leaving for university soon'

So why us she upset now niece did exactly that? Moved out, started own life, having her own opinions? Sister is pulling you in as her flying monkey to put niece back in her place for her.

Limited.

they are both 26. Their half siblings are 1 and 2.
their dad made clear that he wasn’t prepared to offer and support financially or otherwise after uni (which is perfectly reasonable, but one had their uni years disrupted by Covid and spent multiple lockdowns at uni rather than go to his dads and the other is quite seriously disabled and uses a wheelchair).

my son who is the non disabled one did try to maintain a relationship with his dad but it was a constant series of indications he wasn’t important anymore - eg at his graduation they announced the first pregnancy and he felt they could have waited until not his big day. Etc etc.

they do see him and the new wife (who they actually really like) and the half sibs but mostly at wider family events eg a cousins wedding, grandads bbq etc

my son isn’t going to be at the younger one’s christening because he’s away on holiday etc. they don’t spend Christmas with him - my son deliberately volunteers at a shelter over Xmas so as to have an excuse. My dd stays with me - she’s having trouble getting a job (disabled) and her dad has done fuck all to help.

This 100%
why move someone in when your child is 17? Could she possibly not have waited until your niece was ar university and settled???
has this man been inappropriate or made a move on her at some point would be my other worry too.
op sounds like a lovely auntie and the sister should be grateful her daughter is safe and being cared for.

I feel sad for your sister. She has prioritised your niece for her whole childhood, provided for her, raised her and put her first. Eventually she met someone and fell in love. She put off living together with her partner to suit her daughter's needs. Having a child with her partner was not something that could be left longer, fertility has time constraints.
Your niece is only seeing her mum in mum role, instead if as a whole person. Did she expect her mum to be alone forever? Why shouldn't she have someone to share her life with?
I hope your niece can see this when she grows up, and make amends with her mum and appreciate the sacrifices she made for her. In the meantime, you maintaining your relationship with your niece us a good thing, but be careful not to damage your relationship with your sister.

My niece refuses to speak to or see my sister, and has cut her out of her life completely.
My sister is delighted when my niece is in contact with any other family members or friends, because she cares about her daughter's wellbeing.

So because we don't actually know these people, everyone should refrain from comment?

Would make for a rather quiet forum.

Yes, what does your sister actually think will happen in her scenario? Her daughter will go back to her against her wishes and fuming with anger? Live on the streets? She sounds fucking horrible

I feel for the neice in that she felt she got pushed out and ignored by her mum, substituted by a new partner and baby. Less time for her. Her mum should have prioritised her daughter first.

Regarding having a second baby, thats not your neices call to make. That's a decision for her mum. Maybe your neice is embarrassed about having a 20 year age gap, or maybe shes concerned that there's even less time to spend with her now or less money for her. Either way, its not her decision. The baby's here now, she cant send it back. If your neice chooses not to have a relationship with baby brother, thats her choice.

Shes now opted not to speak with mum. That's her call to make. Im glad to hear she has somewhere to live with you. At least she won't feel total abandonment having you, her aunt and cousins around.

Your sister should not be telling you to not let her stay with you. Shes probably trying to force her to come home. You should remain neutral and try help facilitate a reconciliation, even if its a brief one. If she stays at uni accommodation, you will all lose her and she might not come back into the wider family fold.

Good luck. I hope there is a reconciliation. You only get one mum and whilst she may have felt abandoned over the past 3 years, she must have done a good job over the past 17 years.

But your natural urge isnt to think that there is probably more to a young woman cutting her mum off? You presume she's cut her mum out of her life because she's just a brat? That's some really weird thinking

I would let DNiece stay and don't get mixed up in the disagreement. If you're happy to have her then of course DNiece can stay, why not? You don't need to ask for agreement or permission from DSis. And don't agree to "talk to" DNiece about anything. You are not a go-between. Just keep confidential whatever each one says about the other.

You have a relationship with your DSis and you have a relationship with your DNiece. You can't fix whatever has gone wrong between them and if you try it will only damage your relationships with both of them.

Nah, it's what we're told.

But feel free to add to the story by making stuff up.

You’re doing the right thing being a great aunt and support for your niece.

her mum isn’t supporting her in the way that Young adults need, so it’s great that you’re able to do that. She’ll really appreciate it as she gets older.

It sounds like DN was pushed aside in favour of new bloke. DSIS has created this situation so she has to live with the consequences.

Shocking to see so many posts supportive of sister rather than niece.

Firstly, I think you sound like a lovely supportive auntie.
As much as I can feel empathy for your sister, she’s largely brought this on herself. She was too quick to have the new partner staying over regularly, especially as your niece said she wasn’t happy about it. Your sister didn’t listen to her concerns and has subsequently pushed her daughter away. You reap what you sow and all that.

I feel sad for the niece. Her mum moved in some bloke, refused to spend any 1:1 time with her daughter, had another child while claiming she didn't have any spare money to help DD with uni (despite uni loans being based on parental income so the niece may well be on a reduced loan as her mum's household income is high enough to pay for IVF) then is trying to pull the rug from under her own DD further by insisting she not be allowed to stay at her aunt's house! I don't have a sister, I have a brother, but if my adult children weren't speaking to me and staying at my brother's my first instinct would be too be hugely relieved that they had somewhere safe to stay, not to insist he kick them out.

Op keep letting her stay, maybe she'll repair her relationship with her mum in time, maybe not, but at least she's staying close to her wider family.

I find it really odd your sister didnt say thank you, thank you for keeping the family connection...please tell her I talk about her, love her lots etc etc..
To instead want her to be pushed further away from family is weird and not in my view...maternal

I think your niece is still very young - there’s lots of time for things to improve between her and her mum. I would take any 20-year old saying they will ‘never’ do X or Y as being perfectly valid on how they feel now but with a pinch of salt as a long term plan. Tbh probably the same at any age…

I feel for them both, they are both hurt. Your sister frankly bears more responsibility (I say this as a 57 year old who met my dp 5 years ago when ds was 16. We moved in together very soon after he left for university and tbh it was still a bit soon. But at least no babies involved).

Yes you should always welcome her. But don’t allow her to badmouth your sister to you, and perhaps go and see your sister while she is with you, and likewise don’t allow your sister to badmouth your niece. Maintain your relationships with both. Don’t pass info on, although if they tell you news, ask if you can do so.

I agree you're a very good auntie! And I do think you were absolutely right to tell DNiece that she had to tell her own Mum where she was staying. She should not expect you to tell DSis for her, nor expect you to keep it a secret from your DSis.