To let my niece stay when she refuses to see her mum?

[ShadowShapes]

My sister has 2 children, my niece is 20 and my nephew is only 10 months, so a huge age gap. They have different fathers.

My niece is at university and since my sister had the baby, my niece has refused to spend holidays at home, preferring to stay in her uni city with friends. My sister isn’t happy with this but has had to accept it. My niece has told her that she doesn’t want anything to do with her or the baby. She thinks her mum is mad for having another child. My sister and partner have been together for 5 years and he moved in when my niece was 17. My niece got on ok with him but didn’t like him living with them.

My niece planned to stay in her uni city for summer but asked if she can spend the summer with us a couple of weeks ago. I said she could but that she should tell her mum. She did and my sister said we shouldn’t let her stay with us and we will make things worse.

My niece came to us last week and my sister is angry. I said that I am being neutral but that I will speak to my niece about how she’s feeling and try to help them sort out their relationship. My sister thinks I should tell her that she can’t stay with us but I’ve said she will always be welcome here. My niece is such a nice person but she is adamant she wants nothing to do with her mum, her partner or the new baby.

I feel really in the middle but my niece is still really young and I wasn’t going to turn her away. I’ve tried to put myself in my sisters shoes but it’s difficult as I can’t imagine having another child now and how my children would feel about that.

I’m going to let her stay but going forward what would you do? I’ve suggested to my niece that her mum comes for a coffee or to meet for a walk with or without the baby to try to sort things out but my niece isn’t interested. She just seems to be getting on with her life and seems happy without her mum in it. She helps around the house, gets on well with my children who are also home from uni, goes out with friends and is working. It’s like she has just wiped her mum out of her life, They had a good relationship until her mums partner moved in. She says she feels her mum put him first and although her partner is ok, she didn’t like living with another person.

I think that given your DNiece is an adult it's fine to have your own separate relationship with her. You don't need her mother's permission to have her stay or to keep her informed.

I'm sorry but I agree with PP, a half sibling 20 years younger than you isn't comparable to a sibling that you've grown up with. I think that you often can't have everything you want and this girl's mum had to make the decision between starting a new family and maintaining good relations with her older child because having both was never an option.

Your sister got her priorities completely wrong! It's natural for a child to feel left out when their parent meets someone new, but that parent should do everything possible to make sure the child isn't left out, by spending quality time alone with them and putting their feelings first. She didn't do that, and it's understandable that your niece felt totally disrespected by her own mum. Your niece is lucky to have you, your sister will just have to get used to the situation, you reap what you sow.

It’s probably a good thing you have your niece with you as it keeps contact and the chance of communication open.

I met my partner (now DH) when his children were 19 and 11. The 11 year old was fine. The older one, who was at university and did not live in the same country was unpleasant and rude. I had nothing to do with his divorce that took place over a decade beforehand.
My husband paid for his older child’s university, just as we will now pay for his younger child’s university. We have had a child together since and his oldest child is still distant, sneering and selfish. It does not matter I had nothing to do with the divorce - my mere existence upsets them. Too bad. We live with it. My husband is entitled to a life while he has loved, supported and been there unconditionally for his children. They will grow up and learn this. Let’s hope the OP’s sister in this does support her child at university, you have to make time for all your children.

You are the DA I needed growing up. My DM didn't do what your DSis did but she constantly put her affair partners and then her bfs first and then wondered why I limited contact and eventually went NC.

Your DN needs you just in case things go wrong and she clearly likes being with you.

Your DSis sounds like she now wants to get your DN to bond with the baby but it's not very realistic.

I say this as someone who has a 22 yr age gap with their younger sibling after their parent met a shiny new partner. I get it. You don’t want to spend your twenties cooing over a baby that you’re supposed to be besotted over, it’s meant to be a time for fun and living. It’s also really hard that everything is completely taken over by this new baby and the new partner who has a lot of control over what was once yours. My situation sounds very similar to your niece and I totally get her feelings here and why she doesn’t want to be involved. In particular, whenever I saw my parent and the new baby, I was effectively expected to babysit so they could have space or fun on their own, everything in the house revolved around that. Perhaps it’s similar for her? It’s also really hard because what exactly do a 20 year old and a baby have in common? If she doesn’t want to play baby games etc then what is she to do? All I can say is that this may change as they grow and the baby becomes more of their own person, but that her relationship with her parent is likely changed forever.

i think it says a lot about your sister that she wants you to cut her off or force her back, that’s absolutely not the play. She should be wanting to show your niece support and kindness and show that it’s still her home too, even if she doesn’t feel it right now, etc.

Fwiw I think you’re doing the right thing by letting her stay with you and I don’t think you should push things too much as that will only push her the other way into never coming anywhere near home.

She’s a young adult finding her way in the world and she’s entitled to make these decisions if she wants to. What she needs is support from family who won’t judge or try to force her into anything

Apart from anything else, if your neice needs a calm environment in which to study before her next academic year, she is not going to get it in a home with a new baby. She would end up being a default babysitter at a time when she should be studying, enjoying uni life, and as you mention earning some cash. She might not have needed to work if her mother hadn't decided to effectively replace her. For these reasons I would let her stay. Your sister has made her bed, let her lie in it.

It's ok to say
"Your daughter is fine, or gone back to uni", or whatever.

I didn't say personal stuff, to which I agree should be with consent. But the spirit of my message is that it's good for her to tell her sister that the daughter is doing ok. Better than nobody knowing where she is and how she is.

I think where going to have to agree to disagree as you don't seem to understand what the word sibling means

Thank you for being such a good auntie. I didn’t have a lot of safe adults growing up so I think I’d appreciate being cared for like this. Having someone kind and steady having your back is very powerful, especially in early 20s. I always try to prioritise kind and responsible young people. We need more of them.

No
She's not a nice person,turning her back on her baby sibling is actually quite nasty .
I understand not wanting a step dad ,not wanting him moving in ,Anne being upset at 17 .
But 20 is an adult,and she's causing hurt to her mum and ..that's not a nice person
Baby is here now and niece needs to grow up and accept the situation

You niece is being very immature but that's perfectly normal for a 20yo. 20 is legally an adult but really barely out of puberty and the brain doesn't finish growing to adult configuration until about age 25-27. She can be forgiven for her silly attitude which she will probably manage to reconcile by the time she is 30, hopefully sooner.

Yanbu. You are family and you love your niece. It is perfectly sensible to give her some loving nonjugemental space in which she can focus on her education and her own ambitions. Sharing a house with a newborn baby isn't a good way to spend university holidays even if there wasn't a rift.

Your sister is being unreasonable. Her daughter can't be shamed or pressured into changing her mind and trying to make it more practically difficult to avoid coming home will not help.

OP, I think you're putting yourself in the middle of this by letting her stay at yours and your relationship with your sister will be negatively affected. If she stayed at her university city this would stay just between them and you could interact with both freely. Having her stay at yours when she has cut her mum and half sibling out her life is taking a side.

I would definitely prioritise your niece here. It sounds like your family are basically her only family now and she needs someone to love her unconditionally. I am absolutely shocked that your sister would tell you not to let her stay with you - how on earth could she possibly imagine that would help anything? And even saying that to you is going to further damage her relationship with her daughter.

I wonder if her partner is controlling. How quickly she had him there and as much as she did fits the pattern (love bombing, I want to spend all my time with you, read: I want to keep an eye on you and make sure there is no time for you to be secretly seeing anyone else, texting anyone else, saying anything to anyone that I’m not aware of), same for the never letting them spend time together on their own.

It’s also not at all good that she prioritised him, as you have already said, and entirely fair that her DD doesn’t want to see her now. Her mum might as well have told her to f* off basically with everything she wanted and needed from her mum, now she’s showing her mum this is what happens.

From the Op

When my sister met her partner, she introduced him very quickly to my niece. He was staying over most nights within weeks so almost living there and then properly moved in after about 15 months. My niece would ask to do things with my sister and she always invited her partner along. My niece feels like she put him first and that as soon as she met him, she no longer spent time with just her

Just a suggestion, could you suggest that they both write a letter to each other. Put down their feelings on paper. And then read what each other has to say. Sometimes, meeting in person and having that conversation face to face is hard.
From what you’ve said, I’m on team niece, but she might regret cutting her mother (and sibling) off, without a backwards glance, at some point in the future.

End of rhe day your sister failed to put her child
first, insiting her partner came everytime she did something with her daughter was incredibly selfish. Maybe your sister needs to actually think about what she’s done in this and think of a solution.

Is it not better if you do let niece stay with you ..as least you can talk to her and tell her mum she's safe and fed with you .
I do find it odd the mum would prefer her alone in her uni city than safe At her aunts house

Ooh burn!

I think I’m more realistic about how hurt the niece is.

There is a balance needed to ensure DD spent time with her DM alone but otherwise her DM left a healthy gap between raising her child and meeting a new man.
When she fell in love she jumped feet first into it, agreed, my point is she could have done this through DD’s childhood but she waited until DD was older.
It looks like DM wants her to be part of the home, DD doesn’t want that. It’s not like she isn’t invited to stay and has been cut off, she’s not number one priority anymore but still important.

Most people seem to be commenting on whether niece is right to refuse to see her mum and not OP's actual question.

OP is an adult; her niece is an adult. If OP would like to have relationship with her niece and is happy for her to stay then she should invite her to do so.

In view of the circumstances I would set a hard boundary that I would not discuss the sister/niece relationship as that was for them to resolve between themselves, with the aid of counselling if necessary.

If either the sister or the niece have an issue with this, then that is their own issue - they cannot expect OP to "take sides".

It actually doesn't matter as to the reason for niece refusing to see her mum - it's not for OP (and certainly not for randoms on a MN forum) to adjudicate whether it is "good enough" or not.

Well you clearly have the same maturity level

So when she was literally asking to chat to her mum and spend one-on-one time with her and was completely ignored because her mother was prioritising her brand new bloke, that was fine?

But now she’s choosing to ignore her mum’s requests to chat she’s being unreasonable?

She’s obviously deeply hurt that her mother sidelined her in favour of a man, and now she’s grappling with the bizarre situation of having a step-sibling 20 years her junior, which must be both painful and unsettling.

Every poster describing her as ‘spoilt’, ‘bratty’ and ‘attention-seeking’ is coming off like someone who’s done the same to their own children. Or is entirely lacking in empathy and the most basic understanding of human psychology.

The mother - the adult - is in the wrong here, not the child. And it’s on her to take responsibility for how she made her daughter feel, then and now, and to make whatever concessions are needed to rebuild their relationship.

Not having her to stay is equally taking her sister's side.

You’re very sweet.

and then the niece says "fuck that" (as indeed I would) and no one gets anything.