To not understand attitude on here to grandparents helping with childcare

[WhenWillThisEverEnd]

I see so many responses to posts on here from people saying that mums are ‘entitled’ to expect childcare support from their DMs. My mum helped with with my children when they were young and looked after them twice a week when I was working. she could have said I am enjoying my retirement and too busy travelling but she loves me and her grandkids and wanted to support us.
she now has quite severe health needs and can’t drive. I have to support her a lot which impacts on my life and work. However I don’t begrudge it for a minute as I am paying back her kindness - we are a family and support each other. I do not think it is entitled to expect support. You don’t just stop being a parent when your children reach 18.

Being a parent doesn’t automatically mean you are available to provide childcare for grandchildren.

There are numerous reasons why a grandparent can’t or doesn’t want to do this. It’s wrong to assume they should.

I know. I have to laugh.

and older generations weren’t even doing as much as grandmothers in some other countries who basically look after the children every day and every weekend while parents work - backlash from them is understandable but from people who looked 1-2 days a week at best … but mostly not even that

i think Britain or perhaps Western Europe has very individualistic culture, and that’s just one of the symptoms

my dm offered to help
i didnt ask or or expect it, she did what she could
and now i help her

This.

Quite apart from anything else, many people in their 50s and 60s have a lot less energy than they used to and simply don't have the stamina to deal with an energetic 2yo.

But it IS one sided, in your case, it seems?

Maybe you should go ahead and move? If you're not prepared to be MIL's carer, now is the time. Are you in the sort of set-up where it will mostly fall on you, although she's your DH's mother? Time to put your foot down.

Those mums with small children whom they still adore utterly and who are reliant on them for everything might find it hard to extrapolate forwards to when those darling babies - for whom they will gladly provide childcare 24/7 if necessary - grow up to be very different people to them.

It's easy to say 'I will do everything for my grandchildren' when your OWN children are small. But when those children are grown and you are finally getting your life back and can do things impromptu and eat and sleep when you want to, you may feel differently about starting all over again with children that aren't yours.

It depends what you mean and your expectations.

In my view loving parents who live close to their adult children and who see each other regularly ( and not just when the children want something) would volunteer gladly to help out when regular (otherwise organised) childcare falls through, for occasional ‘parents night out babysitting, in emergencies. Perhaps days or weeks in holiday periods to help out. They see their grandchildren alongside other family regularly too as a pleasure - a natural thing - not a childcare obligation.

But a belief and expectation that grandparents are morally obliged to become second hand parents to the grandchildren- to provide daily or regular childcare and to be grateful for it seems to me entirely unreasonable.

This is often an expectation of those who have failed to mature to realise that their parents are people too who also have hopes and dreams and life to live that don’t come second to you once you’re an adult. In adulthood you - you are the one who is responsible for yourself and step up - not mummy and daddy!! You’re all grown up. They’ve done their job. Own and pay for your choices. Yes they’ll always love you and help you out when chips are down but that’s not the same as thinking their lives and freedom remain secondary to yours.

I don't agree. My mother currently has 9 grandchildren, likely to be 12 in the next 12 months. All primary school age. She cannot possibly provide support for all of them. So the most reasonable thing to do is to refuse regular support for any of them. Imagine how pissed off my sister would be if my mum helped me out twice a week but then couldn't help her because I happened to have kids first!

Looking back when my kids, step kids, nieces and nephews were young my in laws were constantly looking after a child or another. It was predominantly my 2 stepsons as hey were the oldest, then my sils kids as she literally was round in laws house every single day. My bills kids got a look in but not as much according to him. They helped a lot with my oldest when I did an evening job and then when I had my daughter. The over enthusiastic help petered out when my fil got ill (understandable) then I had my 2 youngest sons who haven't really experienced the time spent with grandparents. My fil and my own mum died before my youngest was born. We just have my mil now and she tries to offer help by saying I can drop my toddler to her if I need to go shopping but I can't because she mustn't do heavy lifting and he's really heavy and he cries whenever he sees her. My husband forgets how much they helped out as he only thinks of recent years, forgetting how they used to have a grandchild sleep over every weekend

I remember when my sister had her firstborn she struggled a lot as her baby was colicky. She told me she was on the verge of turning up on our mum's doorstep and just hand the baby over to her and fuck off for a while (luckily she didnt).
My poor mum wasn't great at settling crying babies, judging by how my 2nd youngest was inconsolable the whole time she last had him at hers by herself.

i think you’re right but a) not everyone has a good reciprocal relationship with their parents and b) some people (me!) are struggling with parenting the first time around and can’t imagine having to do it a second time so are perhaps protecting their own future space that they’re hanging onto? I’m sure when it/if it comes to it there will have been so many years between now and then I will be delighted to help but right now I feel overwhelmed by the idea of having to deal with babies and toddlers again later in life. Also, this generation of partners will likely be working into their seventies so that’s a structural issue coming down the line

Yet again the term grandparents is used, when in actual fact the expectation is on grandmothers. Men seem to get free credit for what their wife does and no threats of not being looked after in old age if they dont provide regular child care.

And what do grandfather's do in other countries? How much childcare do they provide?

I think people just have very different concepts of family. I agree with a pp that a lot of posts seem very individualistic to me but that’s because my family just doesn’t work that way. Everyone helps where they can. When I was a teenager I helped around the house and watched younger siblings occasionally. My granny helped out regularly and aunts and cousins all lend a hand to whoever needs it. My mum and aunts then supported my granny to live at home well into her 90s. It’s a safety net that supports us all and means we all feel very connected.

In that context, I would have been surprised and disappointed if my mum hadn’t wanted to help out. She’s done a mix of regular and ad hoc care for my sister and I and really made a huge difference to our experience of working parenthood. In turn, I’ll do my best for her and to support my own kids in whatever ways they need. Whether that means caring for grandchildren or other practical or financial support. That’s what family means to me. We all try and ease each others path through life.

Nah. Your parents already raised you, and as you've extremely transactional you can count your care for them against their raising you.

Rest easy, they still did a LOT more for you than you ever did for them. HTH.

You shouldn’t expect it - it is unfair to put these sort of expectations on anyone. Just as they shouldn’t expect you to become their full time carer at some point.
Count yourself incredibly lucky if you get support though!
I have to admit i’m jealous- i think we had less than 5 hours of childcare all in all, and oldest is 14…

I think you’ve misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn’t saying that I cared for my parents so they owe me childcare. I don’t see caring for my parents as a transaction at all. I cared for my mum when she became disabled and I’m still caring for my blind father because they’re my parents and I love them.
I was simply saying that, having cared for my parents for many years, it would have been nice to have had some support myself occasionally. I also said that it was fair enough that my parents and in-laws didn’t help with my children, so I don’t understand why you’ve called me “extremely transactional”. You don’t know anything about my circumstances or how much I’ve done for my family, so I think that’s a very unfair assumption to make. Your posts do come across as a little goady, so do suspect you’re enjoying upsetting posters for your own entertainment!

How is not entitled to have dc & expect them to provide care for you when they are older though?

You're extremely transactional, that's based entirely on your comments. "I think it would have nice to help me out occasionally as it swings in roundabouts! These grandparents seem not to understand that they’ll need help too!"

You tried to hide the veiled threat, but didn't succeed. Grandparents better offer free child caring labour or they'll get no help despite having already done their job of raising their children. Yes that's what you meant, it's the only possible reading.

You already owe your parents care - at least by your own transactional calculations.

But that's not how life works, of course.

Anyway, look after your own kids. As a grown adult you're not entitled to free labour from your parents.

Who has said they expect it, though? The OP has said she is caring for her mother, not that her mother has in any way indicated that she feels 'entitled' to it. I certainly won't be expecting my DC to care for me.

Every situation is different, OP. Your post lacks nuance and understanding.

Lots of grandparents are happy to help if they can. And that often requires compromise. But what doesn’t fly on MN is adult children thinking they are automatically entitled to childcare from their parents, whether expecting them to give up work or hobbies or generally to sacrifice their own lives for grandchildren.

YANBU. I'm in the same position. Mum.helped a lot with the younger two who had sporadic health issues after she had retired.I am now, with help from my bro, caring for her as she has a heart problem and dementia. The circle of life.

This with bells on
and it’s rarely grandparents - often grandMA with the expectations and inevitably getting it in the neck

Yup. Women are a resource to be used up till they keel over and die. Men get to retire and have hobbies, plus female servants if they get married or have a daughter.

And yet still some women, like the OP, continue the cycle of misogyny.

Yep, I think women should devote their entire lives to childcare. That's the natural order of things. How dare they want a life of their own, even if they're too old and knackered to look after kids. Fucking selfish the lot of them.