To not understand attitude on here to grandparents helping with childcare

[WhenWillThisEverEnd]

I see so many responses to posts on here from people saying that mums are ‘entitled’ to expect childcare support from their DMs. My mum helped with with my children when they were young and looked after them twice a week when I was working. she could have said I am enjoying my retirement and too busy travelling but she loves me and her grandkids and wanted to support us.
she now has quite severe health needs and can’t drive. I have to support her a lot which impacts on my life and work. However I don’t begrudge it for a minute as I am paying back her kindness - we are a family and support each other. I do not think it is entitled to expect support. You don’t just stop being a parent when your children reach 18.

It might be what you believe the meaning of life to be and you may be content with a life of 'wife work' and caring duties but I am not. In my old age, I'd like to be getting pissed at Bingo with my mates, taking a fellow OAP home for a good time and spending the next day hungover in my dressing gown without worrying about issues surrounding childcare (been there, done that). I will be a hands on nan who is happy to help but I also won't be taken the piss out of, won't be cancelling my plans and won't be doing set days a week, I've lived my whole life for other people - they won't be taking my pensionable years from me too (providing I make it that long)!

As for those mentioning not caring for elderly parents if they didn't provide childcare, I would prefer to go into a care home than have my child look after me for years in my old age, I have seen what that has done to my mother and would not wish that for my own child.

I think the idea that you should be able to expect your mother to help with child care is horribly sexist and part of the oppression that narrows the roles women end up taking in the world. We need the children's fathers to step up to the plate on childcare, not their grandmothers.

Why ever do you think that? My DM didn’t help with mine other than the odd emergency. Frankly I’d have felt it was a huge imposition to ask. Looking after children is bloody hard graft, much more tiring than many jobs. I would have felt too guilty to put that level of work on her shoulders. They were MY children, not hers! I decided to have them and knew they’d need many years of child-rearing. She had no say in the matter.

Now she’s elderly I care for her, because she’s my mum and I love her.

I disagree. It’s great if family can help, but looking after kids is really really tough going and regular, expected care of toddlers/little kids is an awful lot to put on an (often) 60+ year old when they are in their retirement years.

I don’t believe it’s the same as help given to elderly parents. With the state of social care it’s often an absolute health and wellbeing necessity in a way it isn’t to help out with kids.

I say this as someone who got 2-3 days childcare a week from my mum for my twins from 1-4yrs old. Why? She was was a childcare practitioner who retired early (at 50) and based her life and aspirations around caring for young children. My MIL on the other hand opted out of any childcare and I genuinely thought nothing of it – she’s great and it’s completely her choice to live her retirement years in relaxation and happiness. I will not begrudge her help from us in old age. It’s not tit for tat.

My own mum, I can tell, has not been up to childcare since my twins turned four. I can tell it’s too much for her and I am 100% OK with that and wouldn’t dream of expecting it from her. After raising me and my sister and women so hard she deserves a peaceful life.

The post I gather OP is referring to is where the poster already gets 9hrs childcare a week from her mother. The mother did offer extra childcare on the day the poster wanted but just at lesser hours than the whole day. Whoever would have an issue with than is 100% entitled.

I have older children and younger ones. I’ve already started talking to my youngest about how hard life is with children. I want her to understand that it is all consuming and by some of these threads once you become a Mum your caring responsibilities will never end or else you will be called selfish! I’ve had at least one child under 12 since I was 20. My choices (kind of) but my goodness if I agreed to take regular care of my Grandchildren then I would likely die without ever having had a full break from active childcare since being barely more than a teenager.

The implication here seems to be that if a grandparent (especially grandmother) doesn’t help out with childcare then they are difficult/unkind or similar. I have never had any help from either of my parents or in laws. My parents (separately) moved hundreds of miles away before I had children. But they are great parents, gave us a wonderful childhood, always loving and supportive. They just don’t want to provide childcare. This doesn’t undo the lifetime of care they have given us. They had children young and so did I so they were in their early 50s when my children were born. They were perusing new relationships, working, travelling etc. Just because they didn’t give that up to provide childcare care doesn’t make them somehow deficient as parents!

It’s fine to ask, it wrong to expect people to change their plans. I like many people managed to bring up children without grandparent support regularly, it’s ridiculous to me when someone complains they only get one day a week of support and they aren’t even working currently

I was a grandparent at a young age because I had my own children very young. Because of that I’m still working and not in the position to help with childcare for my granddaughter. I made this very clear from the beginning so there were no expectations and I sacrificed my career when my children were young so I’m not prepared to do it again. More and more people will be working until they are older so I think when people decide to have children they need to take that into consideration.

It’s very transactional. You look after my kids and I might look after you if you need it.
Doesn't seem like caring relationships to me.

What about grandparents who are still working because they have to. What about the division between grandparents on one side of the family or the other.

Maybe it’s just down to what you are used to. I didn’t have a close relationship with my mum and DH’s parents lived at the other end of the country. They came up for a couple of weeks in the summer and would stay with us, look after the DCs during the week as they were on holiday from school and visit their friends and family at the weekend (we live near DMIL grew up). That was win-win. The rest of the time DH and I split it between us pretty much 50:50. Depending on my age and fitness I might look after the DCs children part-week if they live close by but I’ll be 67 when I retire and I don’t necessarily want to use up the last of what I hope will still be good health then.
i’m planning on helping them financially by passing on much of my inheritance from my parents to them and if I didn’t do that I could retire a lot earlier but that’s my plan so I can’t.

I don’t like it when there looks to be asymmetric expectations - the mother is horrible for not helping but there are few expectations placed on the husband to step up and nothing on the dad. My friend used to complain about her mum, encouraged by her useless selfish ex-husband. Of course her wanted her to ask her mum because he wanted to do the square root of fuck all. This is probably giving me a jaundiced view. I do know that if my DCs slagged me off for not helping but asked nothing of their father they’d have all requests directed to him from then on.

This exactly i would still have great parents even of they provided no childcare at all, it was our choice to be a parent not theirs

And yes i thinl this bitter and twisted transactional competition of you need to provide childcare or i won't help ypu when you need it is plain weird

It’s not unusual to receive childcare but it is entitled to expect it . I helped my DD but she didn’t expect it and was very grateful. No one helped me and I neither asked for or expected it

In the real world many families help each out and gps provide childcare. I would take the MNs view with a pinch of salt, after all many don’t open their front doors!

I do find that grandparents help out less these days. I don’t begrudge them for it, but it would just be nicer if were a little more there for each other.

My grandparents helped with caring a lot more than either of my child’s grandparents. They haven’t even baby sat. I’ve asked my MIL (70s) and she just got flustered and made excuses why she couldn’t. Yet, I pay the premium on living in a small house in an expensive part of UK so that we live by my MIL in case she needs anything. (desperate to move away for more room)

On another thread, it was pointed out to me that there is a generational difference, in that grandparents today may both work FT in careers, whereas, before when I was a child most families survived on the father’s salary - so the grandmother was freer to help.
Plus people are having kids later because they’re broke, which means the grandparents may feel too old. I think they’re fair points that make the situation different today.

Neither of my child’s grandmother’s worked in 9-5 salaried careers, but culturally, there has been a shift and they just don’t seem eager to help.

It feels to me like this generation of new mothers are sandwiched between work, children, no family support and caring for elders, all at the same time. I know I’m not the only one. Many of my friends are in a similar position.

While I don’t believe it’s tit for tat, there has to be some acknowledgment that people are living longer these days and grandparents may need that help they are perhaps reluctant to give to the children or grandchildren. It can’t just be one sided.

I'm 54 and have grandchildren ranging from 17 to 1. By the time I'm officially old enough to retire they will be grown up or nearly so

And I was looking after my own kids from 1991 until DS went to uni in 2022. That's a long enough stretch of childcare for a bit thanks

Many families model this though, my gps helped out when I was a dc so I grew up thinking it was normal & that my parents would be involved with my dc. I also expected my DH to be a hands on father because my dad was, I don’t see as entitled.

I also grew up seeing my parents help my gps as they got older and I do the same now for my parents. I don’t think they are entitled for expecting family to pitch in.

Both my mum and MIL are brilliant. Both have very close relationships with our children, as our grans had with us.
I was more than happy to pay for FT nursery but both insisted they wanted to do a day each. If they ever had anything come up (rarely) they would swap with each other or let us know so we could sort an extra childcare day. It was never an issue. And they covered all illness if they couldn’t go to school (obviously nothing that requires A&E or an emergency appointment, we haven’t had any of that).
This was pretty much the same arrangement we had when we were small with our grans.
We will be on hand to help them too as they get older. MIL is 10 years older than my mum but still very fit and active fortunately.

You’re so lucky

I know. We never take it for granted. Sadly no grandfathers on either side. DH dad died and mine buggered off before I was born.
Sad for the kids as our grandfathers were amazing

But when a couple plan to conceive do they include their parents in the decision or just have whatever babies they want and expect grandparents to do as they are told

Some people have gps that are both involved

I just think it’s a really sad state of affairs when grandparents who are able to, choose not to help, or “don’t want to be grandparents” - Wtf is that about?!
I totally understand that I am so privileged that both my parents and my husband’s parents were retired and totally willing to look after our young children whilst we worked, for a couple of days a week. They also would drop everything if we needed them (and still would now). And now the shoe is on the other foot slightly, and as they get older, we do everything we can for them. Because we’re family and that’s surely what we do for each other?

I think there is a middle ground. I'm the GP in this scenario. I do loads of care for my GC. I love them and although it's exhausting, I choose to do it.

As long as the attitude of the parents is gratitude all is fine. But as soon as expectation or entitlement creeps in, they are on a dangerously slippery slope. I'm not obliged to do what I do so I do expect that if for any reason (doctors, occasional times when I can't do it) I'm not available, I won't tolerate whingeing or complaining. There HAS occasionally been a bit of that and I bite back at it.

Fortunately, of late, everything has been fine.

@Stickonstarswhy on earth are you staying close to your MIL, you need to move.

I do live close to both gps but we had help with deposit & gps are actively involved so we want to
stay close.

Expecting grandparents to do as they’re told?! We’ve crossed wires here.
I’m talking about grandparents being willing to help in the same way they themselves might have received help.