To ask why people think it’s okay to abuse NHS staff?

[notafanofthisanymore]

I’m NHS admin. I just got a call through to me and I was the wrong person to help, but as it was a simple query (think where to go as opposed to anything medical), I tried to help the patient.

I understand that having health issues is stressful. But I’ve just been called a useless thick bitch and told that my job is the reason the NHS is sinking, because I told this patient something they didn’t like. I was then told that if this patient died on the way to their appointment it would be blood on my hands, and I should hope they don’t.

I’m just baffled. I was polite, answered this person’s question and got abused because they didn’t like the answer (having to go somewhere else for something they needed). In what world is this acceptable?

Respectfully, my point was people are capable of respectful behaviour when it suits. People forget that medical care is complex with a lot of illnesses still being researched and people have an expectation that staff should know all the answers and make them 100% healthy (and, happy and beautiful in some cases). Like some of 5 star experience without a 5 star bill.
My OH is an NHS medic and despairs at some of the general public.
Comparing a Dr to an accountant is glib, accountancy laws, rules and regulations are not comparable to the human body and its many illnesses and diseases.

It's sadly just the general public these days. We've got generations of entitled arseholes walking the streets and they let the whole world know how utterly ignorant they are on a daily basis.

You see that message in doctor's surgeries and A&E too. Abuse is not right. Even if there is poor service abuse is acceptable.

I think they feel “empowered” when they’re rude. But ugly behaviour will always be just that. My OH likes Michelle Obama’s philosophy: “They go low, you go higher.”

May I assume that your phrase "people are capable of respectful behaviour when it suits" also applies to every member of NHS staff? In my experience, many NHS staff don't appear to believe it does.

One of many examples, when DS was a baby and suffering intractible wheezing post bronchiolitis, the registrar who barked at me, without bothering to look up:

"You all turn up late, now you are all here at once". I was on time.

I left and formally complained to their consultant and had my son referred privately to the Royal Brompton. Because I could and because I will not tolerate that level of rudeness.

Thank you for the anecdote.
I’m referring to clinical need and care.
If you found that consultant’s comment about time keeping of his other patients so unforgivable maybe private health care is best for you.
I wouldn’t have taken it so personally and tried to put myself in their shoes.
I thank my lucky stars everyday that we have the NHS. (I’ve lived in America). But it is staffed by human beings who have their own and family health issues. And if anyone wants to shadow a medic on a 15 hr shift it might open their eyes a bit more.

What offended you about that comment?

Short answer is it's never ok to be rude.
But the system can be awful. With English as one of my main languages, perfect hearing, communication skills etc I have found it very difficult to get help for me/my family.
3 separate Patchs requests all closed, but nothing done! I'm not screaming at anyone, but I am frustrated.
I dread to think how other people struggle. If they're in pain and terrified, and they're been desperately trying to get help and keep being let down, it could be like when a child lashes out-it's not meant to hurt.

It wasn't just about their other patients, it was also aimed at me. If you think that's an acceptable way to greet a patient/parent, and gow to establish a mutually respectful relationship, you must have a very low bar.

I would expect, hello Mrs GrewUp, I'm Dr xxxxxx, shall we have a chat about how Henry is getting along?" Not an abrupt, without bothering to look at me "you all turn up late, now you're all here at once".

YANBU. People's behaviour has been in steady decline for years, possibly because there are few consequences for bad behaviour. We are less reliant on friends and neighbours than we once were, so perhaps appearing as a respectable, functioning, member of society doesn't matter as much. And if all else fails just blame your mental health.

Having said that, the NHS is a deeply frustrating animal to deal with, it's hard to get an appointment, it's hard to see the same GP twice or build up any kind of personal relationship. There is no-one to advocate for you in the hospital system, and appointments are often sent out late or wrong. Some healthcare professionals (usually Doctors) are unbelievably arrogant and belittling and you will get no apology when they turn out to be wrong.

That's probably the biggest failing that's developed over my life- your GP used to know you and could advocate for you and guide you, now you're just a number. Although the arrogance isn't new.

Yes Dr’s do get it wrong sometimes. Is that their fault?

Also, the myth that foreign healthcare workers are all angels of mercy who have decided to come to UK to look after us poor Westeners has to cease. They have moved to another country for exactly the same reasons we would move to another country:money, job security, training, better standard of living etc.

So many people have totally lost the plot since lockdown. Far too many people are now full of hate and bitterness, are provocative, entitled, and have lack of patience and empathy.

And I would counter arrogance with having a thick skin. Dealing with the ill general public is not for everyone. Dr’s have to make extremely difficult decisions and deal with patients (and their families) day in day out. There’s some expectation that they should be councillors too.

I work in the NHS .. for the last 37 years.
Most people are lovely. Or anxious. Or unwell.
Some- a few- are just absolute cunts.
But just one of those absolutely ruins your day.

Don't Drs have to be elected to be councillors? Everyone else does.

Counsellor.

I don’t work for the NHS but I am in a customer facing job and the entitlement of the general public is shocking. It’s actually soul crushing at times when all you’ve done is try to help and are spoken to like dirt. I can mostly laugh (in shock) at the over dramatic ones luckily. I’ve ruined more Christmases and made more kids cry apparently, than I can count over the years.

This goes both ways. People are very quick to accuse others of behaving 'abusively', when it's not. It's usually openly disdainful. And really, patients who aren't being looked after or families being dismissed deserve this treatment far less than the workers who think they know best but are falling short.

Why are you compounding the problem. She didn't say that the NHS gave her special status. Stop being mean.

I can believe that. Abusing a service person for something beyond their control is utterly disgusting behaviour.

There is alot of sense in your post so I agree. I would also add the fact that the government has let far too many people into the country and now we are all subject to too little space, too much noise and fighting over services.

I'm a very polite person but I have noticed that I am being ignored/pushed to the back of the queue for being this way. So the choice seems to be join them or get ignored. I hate the way society is going.

My own experience of the NHS which was good in the nineties as I remember having no problem getting appointments. Now we have too many houses being built and not enough GP's it seems. So you phone up at 8 and can't get an appointment. You try going up to the surgery and they tell you to call at 8. You call again at 8 and get through at 7.59 and yes there is an appointment available but it's not 8 yet so you have to hang up and phone back. I begged her to let me stay on the phone till 8 but she refused. Called back no appts left. Decided to up my own antidepressants to what I know is the max but still acceptable dose. Next repeat perscription I am trouble for having done this without a GP's saying so. I'm told to come into see MH nurse. Appt 6 weeks away upgraded to an urgent appointment (only 2 weeks to wait) when they seemed to think my health warranted it. Saw MH nurse who referred me to see clinical psychologist. Waited about 4 months for this but saw MH nurse in meantime (I think the NHS did okay with this service). Assessed by clinical psychologist as needing further help. Put on waiting list. Just had my first appt though a year later. They did send me a letter 6 months earlier to say I was getting an appointment. Then another letter to say no sorry I wasn't. Then a text as I had replied to their getting an appointment letter. Needed a GP for something else. Couldn't get an appointment and so it started again. Gave up went to private GP. Paid £150 for next day 1/2 appt (doc worked for NHS part -time and private part time). Paid £250 for drugs.

The exhaustion of dealing with the NHS is huge. The frustration is huge. For the love of god just make the system co-pay or private but make it better. People are rude because they are passed from pillar to post and it never seems to be anyone's fault. I worked for the NHS 30 years ago for 2 years and I had to leave. They have far too many staff, not enough work and the entitlement was through the roof (admin job). The money being wasted must have been huge.

No people should not be rude or abusive but even me myself have found myself having to absolutely grit my teeth and get off the phone before I lose my temper.

@TheDogIsInGoodSpirits

The exhaustion of dealing with the NHS is huge. The frustration is huge. For the love of god just make the system co-pay or private but make it better. People are rude because they are passed from pillar to post and it never seems to be anyone's fault. I worked for the NHS 30 years ago for 2 years and I had to leave. They have far too many staff, not enough work and the entitlement was through the roof (admin job). The money being wasted must have been huge.

Nail on the head.

OP you are incredibly prickly and judgemental of others experiences, actually quite dismissive.

Yet you are expecting everyone to emphasise and agree with you …

I left the veterinary profession for exactly this reason.
Think the NHS is bad, wait until people are handing over money.
I've been in the profession since the 90's when clients were respectful.
I have honestly never seen such rude, entitled and downright aggressive behaviour from the pet owning public in my entire career than I have in the last 5 years. I've had physical threats, chairs thrown across rooms, holes punched in walls, many colleagues in tears, you name it. Police called many times. Some of them are off their face on drugs. It's like the wild west in some places. If you're lucky you have a decent boss who bans these fuckers but often they will be placated.
I left a year ago and I've never been happier working alone from home, I'll never work in a public facing role again. I do miss the animals though.